AUDIO
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Phillip Jensen speaks on Anger as part of a series on emotions in the Christian life, delivered at the Australia Day Convention 2010
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One of our students here at Moore, Joel Moroney, has written a very incisive piece about something which threatens to divide the Christian community in a very serious way.
I am talking about Mac vs PC.
And I wish I was joking. Have a look at this article from the UK Guardian newspaper. Sound familiar? Then there’s those terribly smug ads – you know, ‘I’m a PC – and I’m a Mac’.
Moroney is so concerned that he writes: ‘I’m no longer convinced that this rivalry is friendly.’
The aggressive marketing of computer platforms is designed to produce a kind of tribal brand allegiance. It is quite by the design of the companies that people feel attached to PC or Mac as a badge of their very identity.
I’ll let Joel continue:
I’m a PC user. Earlier this year I had the opportunity to buy a new computer. I carefully weighed up my options. I looked at the pros and cons of purchasing a PC or a Mac. And I made my decision. I bought a bright, shiny red PC. It made me happy.
When I posted my happy news on Facebook, as one does when one is happy, I received two types of comments. On one side were people asking me questions about the specs of my new computer, sharing in my joy. On the other side were Mac users. Their responses put me on the defensive. I was made to feel like I was sub par human being for purchasing a PC. That I was uncultured, ill-informed, and that I was very, very unwise. It made me feel like I wanted to take my happy news and hide it somewhere that no one could find it.
As a PC user, have you ever had a problem with your computer that has caused you frustration and anger? Maybe you were about to finish a massive essay the night before it was due, only to find that a computer malfunction caused your entire work to be deleted? Yeah, it happens. Have you shared this sorrow with friends on Facebook or in real life, only to be met with the reply “It wouldn’t have happened if you had a Mac”? In that moment you’re looking for compassion, for empathy. You’re already down, but then it feels like the Mac user has kicked you in the gut. It’s just not loving.
Joel then admits that he has made scathing comments about Macs in the past, too.
The thing is, this attitude and the attendant behaviours have crept into the Christian community, and even into the fraternity of ministers as a kind of middle-class version of Ford vs Holden. And it has to stop – it is ridiculous isn’t it? But the passions involved are very strong and I have seen quite serious arguments occur about it. Can we – at least in our Christian subculture – rise above it?
But Andrew Mackinnon, Shame, Sir, Shame. May I mention the opening of the world of knowledge to ordinary people through computers, the ability to communicate instantly around the world, the capacity to recover previously inaccessible material through digitisation. The fact that this forum exists is another testimonial to the way in which computers contribute and I won't add medical and scientific research that has produced amazing blessings to the world.
Life was incredibly narrow before computers. Of course they present a problem for people beset by original sin and hence a capacity to distort, dissemble and deceive. Computers are no better or worse than people.
Ian Welch, Canberra
What I'm basically saying is that your choice of computer is one of freedom, choose one and get on with living for Christ. I'm sure we don't want Christ to return and find us busy squabbling about non-essentials like what computer we should use.
But surely he has also failed to see the generosity and evangelistic zeal of his Mac friends when they lovingly reach out to him as one in trouble when they say things like :
This indeed is a truism - and worthy of all acceptation. I also can see the gospel parallel in seeing a troubled soul who has gone astray - and wondering how different their life would have been - IF only they had been seeking to live life according to The Maker's instructions as found in "The Master's Book of Instruction" ( available in parts 1 and 2. )
I give daily thanks that my family - many years ago - went forward at a Macintosh rally and made a life-long decision to commit ourselves to be followers of The Apple. Apple Macs still continue to develop the creativity within us - and enable us to enjoy lives as we were ordained to live.
Michael & Joel, it is time to move on, repent - and commit to the one true computer. Learn to travel the road less travelled - and "GET A LIFE - GET A MAC" ;)
http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2002/04/apple_and_the_antichrist.html
I will through my computer off a cliff after posting.
So Mac users have had to develop a thick skin and come up with a few responses to "justify" their choice.
Oh, and until recently, there was no competition to Accordance Bible software on the PC - its Mac only and well worth the choice of platform.
Ian Welch
...and if I was searching - it is the penultimate of cool amongst urban savvy iphone toting Sydney siders.
lets face it, have Mac Book, have Iphone, have Crumpler, have VW Golf TSI , drink at the TAP House, ride a Vespa, wear Ben Sherman, download Driscoll, etc etc
MAC have made their machinery another cool accessary (style and function).
I don't think its anywhere near as drastically divisive as being suggested by the way.
I do wonder whether we can learn from MAC converts though in terms of evangelism - they are incredibly passionate about the product and can't help but tell everyone that its awesome. :)
Sometimes it just takes time for people to see the light. :-)
PC is so, like, denominational.
As I said before, people should make their free will choice, and then move on living for Christ.
There are more important things to dispute over then what computer you use.
P.S. Just to be clear, I've worked in the Information Technology industry since 1972, where I got to use a LISA, the first Mac, the first IBM PC, Gem Windows, MS Windows (most versions) for work, and have used a Mac at work for about 2 years.
At home, however, I have only ever owned a Mac.
You're more then welcome to use a PC, that's your choice.
http://www.themaclawyer.com/uploads/image/mac vs pc 7.jpg
and here :
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/386336637_410fb63d8d.jpg
Michael, I think this sentence gets to the heart of it. We're incredibly tribal creatures and the Mac v. PC thing is the tech version of what can be found right across our society.
It's no different to Parramatta v. Canterbury, Tottenham v. Arsenal, or dare I say in Sydney Anglican circles, ESV v. NIV
And the Christians were busy 'library' lawning so they were by and large not interested in wasting time with computers unles you were in the Elec. Eng faculty.
The first uni computer was the VAX mainframe - what a nightmare... Then in the Arts faculty (I had handed in several handwritten essays already) we got a Mac computer lab. Yea - just type yopur essay and whack in the (floppy) disc, and away you go!
I notice that Christians in the media and FEVA and Matthias media are staunch Mac houses. MTS used to be but when I arrived the iMacs were so old they were better used as boat anchors. So we did a cost benefit analysis (when the Macs were still very expensive) and bought PCs - the board in a bisiness like fashion liked the decision.
These days Macs fit seamlesly on the network and Mac users who work in mixed environmenbts generally get MS Office anywhay.
Now that I have started teaching which makes a heavy demand on multimedia I will be using a Mac - I have tried video editing on PC and I did not find it fun. So I am just moving to the machine that suits my needs (I still don't really want to learn about what happens inside the box - i just want it to work)
it shouldn't surprise us that in a world where style often trumps substance, that the MAC marketing is pretty impressive, and not without substance. it does have some pretty powerful stuff under the bonnet, and like every car I've owned, I don't care what's there as long as it works.
getting back to Michael's question, it is curious how much Christians are driven by what is cool. like the culture we inhabit, we feel with our eyes and think with our feelings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwtt41Ad66A
Is it a storm in a teacup? It ought to be, from one point of view. But the seriousness with which people take these badges of identity makes it potentially more than that... doesn't it?
Craig
www.stmarks.com.au
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NGV4YB9UWY
I've always felt that the rivalry has been fairly light-hearted (hence the number of light-hearted comments on this fairly serious article) and not the cause of any harm. I didnt' think anyone was treating it as seriously as your article suggests.
But I'll be more careful now, because clearly there are people who are affected by this stuff. Good warning Michael.
Michael, I bought my first computer in 1986, when I was in 3rd Year at College. A relatively small number of people at College had computers in those days - some early PCs and a few Apple II's (plus the odd Commodore!). I knew hardly anything about them, so set out with an open mind. The latest thing in the PC world was the IBM JX - which sank without trace months later! But the Macintosh Plus had just been released. Although it was massively expensive by comparison, it was clear that it had been designed for people in the communication business - which is what we are. I've stuck with Macs because I've built up expertise (and invested in software) over nearly 25 years.
But the answer to your question is that in the 80s there was little alternative to the Mac if you wanted to produce good looking promotional material.
The slogan 'Windows 98 = Macintosh 88' wasn't far wrong!
If the banter between Mac and PC users is getting too serious, then sure, let's be sensitive about that. But having sincere conversations with each other about what tools work best for different needs is not something that should become un-PC (excuse the pun), in my opinion.
Yep, though I will admit to enjoying their stylishness too (post hoc).
I'll also admit to a certain degree of tribal loyalty, though--in all seriousness--that has arisen from being so pleased with the functionality. If PC users are likewise pleased, then I rejoice with them!
With the increasing dependence of many ministries on computers it can be a pain in the butt when there are one or two people who operate on different computer platforms and things never seem to go quite as smoothly when sending them files (perhaps the PowerPoint presentation you worked so hard at getting just right didn't transfer well). It's a lot easier to attack someone for choosing a platform that is clearly inferior to yours, especially when you don't have the know how to easily get around the technical issues.
I came home from Tanzania as a missionary in 1991. I had used an electric typewriter (yes, even in Tanzania)and a MAC (from an American missionary). In 1988 when I was home on leave, CMS had a Wang, and I figured out that if an electronic typewriter could bold and underline something at the same time, then this Wang must be able to do more. When I came home I had to buy a computer (I was a secretary and could not think about living without a "modern typewriter".) DOS etc was no problem, but the cost of a MAC was beyond my meagre earnings. At the time, Clergy friends who could not type, but needed to produce bulletins, loved the MAC because it meant they could drag and drop, so clergy who I knew from my years of being in link parishes, working in the Diocesan office etc., were all opting for a MAC, but I wanted a typewriter! I remember being amazed at one program I bought for my PC that meant I could design things it was weird.....I liked seeing a "sheet of paper" in front of me. I have always thought the difference and the passion was more about what was seen then as the function of the machine you were about to buy. I don't think that is so true now - obviously reading the above posts. I have had a good old chuckle as I have read along. Thanks folks!
Apart from price, and Macs are undeniably dearer, it doesn't matter in the slightest which you decide to buy unless you have a particular specialist usage. They are simply tools, like a hammer, which some of us use from time to time as well. I am sure no-one would enter into such lengthy correspondence over a hammer.
And as to which translation of the Bible you use. Who really cares so long as (a) you don't assume that your interpretation is the only one possible and (b) that someone else's reading isn't necessarily wrong because it doesn't agree with yours.
Come on guys and gals, let's get on with something rather more significant.
The new laptop I'm currently using is fairly basic. However I was just as happy using the (3yrs) old one... until I dropped it and broke the screen. Some of my financial supporters (I'm an ministry apprentice) very generously offered to buy me a new one and asked me what I need - and to be honest all I need is a plastic brain with keys and a screen.
Just like a Mac is still a computer, as Christians we are still people, but a lot of the time we're just not compatible with the rest of the world.
My wife has a Mac and I have a PC, and guess what they both failed at the same time. Yes, at the same time! Her Mac Hard drive failed, and we lost a lot of personal photos. My video card failed making it impossible to view the screen. Both where fixed under warranty, but we lost the photos permanently.
What did this teach me! Back up your computer, PC or Mac, neither machine is perfect. At Moore I have had many people come up to me asking me to retrieve their essay because of a computer problem the day before it is due. And guess what, they where both Mac and PC users.
Machines are great tools and we should talk about which tools are best for ministry. If you want a new computer the first thought shouldn't be 'Mac or PC?' but 'What do I want to do with this machine?'. Computer's are a good from God that we can use for ministry, lets keep it at that. Lets inform each other in lover rather than tear down with banter. When you tear down someone's choice of computer you are tearing down what they have on their hard drives, and that usually is family photos or days of work
On just a reading of your article, I'm with Con (#32)
Joel's post kind of supports basic relativism. :) Where the actual dialogue about what is better or worse is ignored, or smoothed to make people happy about their choices. I'm against pride, of course. But I am for robust conversation.
(Disclosure: committed PC for 15 years, was 'evangelised' with humility, care, and reason, and switched over to Mac 2 months ago.)
Good point Justin - what exactly is going on there ? Maybe that's where our emphasis should be.
My learned colleague Rev'd Moffatt is off the mark when he talk about 'going on at College'. That wasn't the context of my comments or of Joel Moroney's either. I don't perceive this to be a college issue - the less than good natured banter occurs in middle-class Australia, and therefore, in our computer-using Christian sub-culture.
Who are you calling "middle class" ?
( Please excuse my meagre attempt at 'good natured banter'. )
Cheers ;)
( Sorry Michael, I couldn't help myself ;0 )
Firefox is open source, and since mid-December 2009 is the world's most used browser. Even Joy switched from Safari to Firefox when she saw me demo the latest bookmarking features, and they were just the standard bookmarking while-browsing features, not the advanced stuff you can get in the plug-ins.
As far as Operating Systems go, I get the impression Linux is still not as user-friendly to non-geeks yet, so Mac is probably still the way to go if you want to spend more time working and less time problem solving.;-)
But the battle lines are starting to draw up out there. If the functionality and interface start to behave like a more commercial OS, then you just can't compete with FREE.
Apple lost much of its once 'loyal' academic market as universities realized that they could buy two or more PC machines for the price of just one Mac.
And if you haven't noticed, Macs are coming down in price although still substantially dearer than an equivalent PC. And as far as notebooks are concerned, Macs are simply irrelevant in price and most functions.
Manufacturers only talk about brand loyalty when it suits their marketing and sales profiles. Mac didn't give a hoot for those of us with old systems (9 and before) when it introduced System 10. I have to retain the old Classic System in order to open my oldest files but can't upgrade my current OS without, in practical terms, buying a new Mac. One of the BIG Mac features that generated loyalty for a couple of decades was the ability to open all the earlier files. That is no longer the case and is a major worry for older researchers who draw on earlier research notes.
In stewardship terms surely we also have to account for:
* time lost learning a new system
* time lost learning new software and routines
* time lost servicing a recalcitrant machine that we're not as familiar with and may not be designed 'for non-geeks', etc.
My big beef with the whole PC/Mac/Linux thing is not so much the price difference, but the sheer human capital and learning investment that is LOST when you have to move from one to another. Mac has iWorks, and so mac users often snub Microsoft Office for iWorks. Moving from Mac to PC often means learning a new OS AND a new Word processor, spreadsheet, Powerpoint instead of Keynote, etc.
This is just not acceptable! To an ex-army dude like myself, we must have ORDER! We must get this gear SQUARED AWAY! We SHALL eventually take the best features of Mac & PC, we SHALL merge them into Linux, we SHALL have a creative corporate team at the top (that draw some profits in from servicing contracts) and we SHALL also draw on the best bottom-up, grassroots open-source community ideas and develop free software that WILL DOMINATE THE WHOLE WORLD...!
OK, enough of the Nazi routine.
But you get my drift... it takes hundreds of hours of use to get to know something, and if it works for you, why change it?
EG: I doubt that half the population can use half the functions of Word, and that's less than half as much as they deserve! Hang on a minute... saw that in a movie somewhere...
Don't mean to say anything bad about College, my wise friend, Rev'd Dr Jensen. Love the College, as you know. It's just that I have never seen this kind of interaction -- was assuming it was a College issue, cos JOel mentioned it, and a section of his comments were from COllege Peeps.
when Microsoft starts a high-powered job description for an Open Source 'liaison' (read, spy, chief strategist and General in the war against, enemy of) then we know that Microsoft is worried about their future.
Interesting to see that you've started looking out for conspiracy theories too ;)
*(The 'conspiracy' to see all the best features of Windows7 and Mac slowly incorporated into the final 'hive-mind' of the Mighty Penguin!
But until that day, inheriting hand-me-down Macs from Joy will just have to do! It's a tough life.
;-)
More seriously, I just read one comment on Slashdot which said one Microsoft Word user went to Openoffice.org when Microsoft changed the Word GUI around so badly in 2007.
Like myself, he just could not handle all the hours invested in learning one way of doing things and the Open Office GUI was more similar to pre-2007 Word than post-2007 Word with the "Ribbon" feature wrecking where you thought you knew everything was.
I reckon 99% of Word users don't bother with most of the advanced features... so why they have to go and keep changing where those features are, and making it hard for the rest of us still trying to get to know the BASIC features, totally beats me.
Have you bought and paid for all your music - ripped from CDs or via the iTunes store etc., or have they been downloaded via Bit torrent?
What about your DVDs - copies bought back from some friends who went to Asia, or did you get them from JB Hi-Fi or Big W?
Seems plenty of people I know who go to church haven't worked out that Exodus 20:15 applies to copyright.
* Some of us older types who really love their music NEVER get their music off the internet ( legal or otherwise ) because we appreciate having the REAL thing in our hands - be it a genuine CD or vinyl album - both with usually fantastic cover art and cover notes. And we realise that artists receive their proper royalties when music etc is bought legally.