[quote author="Nunc, on the Downtime thread"]I don’t get out to the movies much because I have no friends and am a complete loser :P:P:P:P (just kidding - none of my good friends live close by)

Nunc, I know your comment was said with good humour, but I have been thinking seriously about this topic recently and remembering Luke’s previous post some time ago, about longing to have a clique (or at least a group or social circle).

When discussing the target group for our relatively new church service recently, I had to confess that almost all my friends (close or otherwise) live a long way away from me. This means two things for me:

[list]1. My non-Christian friends won’t travel this far to come to church, even if they are interested, and
2. Sometimes I feel lonely, even when I know my friends are out there.[/list:u]

I’m not appealing for sympathy, but I’m wondering if others face the same problems and how they respond to them.

I choose to live where I do because I believe God wants me to serve him at my church. However, outside of church people, I have only a couple of friends here and exactly one non-Christian friend in my local area. This means that my friends are unlikely to visit my church, let alone come regularly! Most have their own churches and it’s unlikely that those who don’t would travel this far to come to mine!

It also seems that developing real (rather than superficial) relationships among some Christians I know is difficult, for various reasons (such as the amount of time we spend together, our different maturity levels, our personalities and our other commitments). That’s hard for me, since I’m used to having good, deep friendships with spiritual discussion and encouragement that flows freely. Building meaningful relationships has never been something I have found difficult, so I get discouraged when it doesn’t seem to come naturally.

Of course, I love seeing my good friends individually and I love meeting new people too! Yet I’m caught - I work a long way away, don’t have much free time and don’t meet new people in my area - I’m just not here a great deal!

So here are some questions I am mulling over and would like to hear your views on:

How do I balance my own needs with serving others?
How do I build relationships without becoming burned out?
Since my friends are geographically spread, should I be content without a local social circle?
Should I get more involved in ministry in the workplace and city-based ministries in anticipation of having opportunities to share with my work friends?

Having said all that, I am very blessed to have the friends I do, despite the distance between us and our lapses in keeping in touch. I have also been immensely blessed by our online fellowship here (AMS is a primary source of friendship and fellowship for me). So thank you all!

I’ll be interested to read your comments.

Han :)

Love the topic, I think there is a lot to it, especially moving to new churches and new areas. Opens the eyes a bit to it all.

My simple comment today (because I think I should be off soon) is that I have found it good to build relationships by doing things together with people. There is then the essential movement from shallow relationships to more enduring ones over time that way. I do however wonder whether ministry has led to me having a lot of friends who I get to know for a while, and then leave, before getting to know someone else.

:)

like Pete I should be off ( okay in fact.. and hour and 10mins ago ..) but quickly..

hehehe nothing like email, phone and messenger programs to help keep contact. I find that helps me quite a bit to keep in contact with people when everyone is spread around the four corners of Sydney, if not the world. :Þ

more comments when I’ve found some sanity ( maybe after sleep) rather than thoughts jumping out of nowhere.

G’day Hannah, Blessings.

There are a couple of scenarios that could be taking place here for yourself as in God revealing to you your heart and developing your servant character.

I don’t know if you have ever prayed into missions, or are supporting a missionary in prayer, perhaps you have even asked God about being invovled in mission yourself. I’m saying this out of what you have said about missions before.

Sometimeswhen we are in constant prayer God will show us how those we are praying for feel by alowing us to be burdened in some area they are burdened and one of these areas for missionaries is loneliness and lack of friendships - they know this while they are serving God and while it does not take the loneliness away it takes the edge of it.

Perhaps God is showing you areas to pray for those you are praying for.

The other area is that God could be developing you for later on, you need to ask him to show you if he is teaching you something through this - also ask him to help you to develop friendships in the area you are in, to make new friends - to unite you in friendship with someone else who needs to be offered the hand of friendship as well.

We do need friends, God has made us to have firends - we do need the actual physical touch and presence of a friendly hand around us, and phone calls, SMS, emails though good are not the same as actually hanging around them. God knows of your needs and though I know I risk sounding like a broken record in talking about prayer - it is an area to pray into - for all our needs.

I myself was feeling lonely because when I really become on fire for God in 97 all my friends deserted me, they are not saved - then I met my wife - but I still lacked other friendships. I prayed and asked God to provide me with and to help me to develop good friendships (not superficial ones) and it has been happening - and the depth of those friendships that are forming is better than I have ever experienced before.

Blessings, sorry if what I wrote above re prayer / missions is of base - if it is disregard.

craig

Re: Friends

Hi Han,

Be assured you’re not alone!

[quote author="Hannah Gordon"]I choose to live where I do because I believe God wants me to serve him at my church. However, outside of church people, I have only a couple of friends here and exactly one non-Christian friend in my local area.

As you said later, this is due to the fact few of us work near where we live, and most of us—being in an world where it is easy to get around—go out (often quite long distances) at night.  We’re not longer living in a village anymore.

[quote author="Hannah Gordon"]This means that my friends are unlikely to visit my church, let alone come regularly! Most have their own churches and it’s unlikely that those who don’t would travel this far to come to mine!

Personally I’m glad this is the case for several of my friends—we have very different needs: they couldn’t stand for two hours at mine and hate the smell of incense; and if I hear “Shine, Jesus, Shine” once more I’ll pull down the building Samson-style. ;-) ;-)

Seriously: church, while no doubt a good place to form meaningful relationships, is to me primarily about God.  I’m not there to make friends [it is a pleasant side-effect]: but to worship God.  Why does it trouble you that your friends can’t come to yours?  I may be dull, this morning, forgive me—I’m trying to give up coffee. :-)

[quote author="Hannah Gordon"]It also seems that developing real (rather than superficial) relationships among some Christians I know is difficult, for various reasons (such as the amount of time we spend together, our different maturity levels, our personalities and our other commitments). That’s hard for me, since I’m used to having good, deep friendships with spiritual discussion and encouragement that flows freely. Building meaningful relationships has never been something I have found difficult, so I get discouraged when it doesn’t seem to come naturally.

Having met you once, I doubt you are failing in any great way—you are very easy to talk to and to get to know.  I wonder if you are putting to much pressure on yourself?

As you said:

[quote author="Hannah Gordon"]I have also been immensely blessed by our online fellowship here (AMS is a primary source of friendship and fellowship for me). So thank you all!

Awwww.....*GROUP HUG*!
;-)

That shows the impact of this community.  Y’all know I have different beliefs in some areas, and try as I might I can’t stay away from this place!  There is a true sense of community and friendship here.  Sometimes we have trouble seeing what it is front of us: as you said, Han, here is a community God has blessed you with.

I remember at my old church [which was very youth / young adult focused], there seemed to be some unwritten rule that we all had to know each other perfectly, and we were all to get along and share deep, meaningful relationships.  It didn’t happen, and I doubt it could—I was vastly different to many of the people there, and they were vastly different to me; I wouldn’t share openly with many of them, and they wouldn’t with me. That is not to say we didn’t talk—we did, and we did share [though not as I would with others closer to me]. 

When I moved to St Mark’s, and where I am now, the greater age range was a relief in some sense.  I believe I got on well with all those I met, but I was naturally more drawn to those of similar age and/or interests.  But it takes time [*sings* “...a whole lot of precious time...” AHEM ], and a genuine desire to be open and honest to form the closest relationships—and I often think as we get older we are less likely to be as honest and open as we believe we have some “ideal”, or some “norm”, to live up to.

I look at my closest friends, and they are all from the most hellish time of my life—Uni [yes, I know it’s supposed to be the best time of your life.  But it wasn’t.  So there ;-P ].

I’m not sure of any of these answers...merely my rambling musings.  Hope there is a pearl in there somewhere!

[quote author="Hannah Gordon"]How do I build relationships without becoming burned out?

I’m not sure we can ever prevent this: taking on the burdens of another is a strong bond, and necessitates a giving of ourselves, and can thus have an impact emotionally, physically and mentally.  But the joys are surely worth it.

I’d try and ensure you are not trying to do much, or placing too much pressure on yourself.  There are times when you need to step back; there are times when you need to say, “I’ve done all I can for now: I’ll pray” if things get tough.  While we take on the burdens of others, we need to be able to draw lines for our own sanity as well.

[quote author="Hannah Gordon"]Since my friends are geographically spread, should I be content without a local social circle?

Many of my friends have moved away [and I’ve done the up-and-live-OS thing], so I know what it is like to be somewhere where you know precious few people locally. 

Friends are friends no matter where they are—as you said at the end of your post: “I am very blessed to have the friends I do, despite the distance between us and our lapses in keeping in touch”.  I have friends in Sydney I only see twice a year and perhaps e-mail six times a year: but they are true friends.  I have friends OS I only speak to on Easter and Christmas—yet we have shared so much in the past that that bond will never be broken. 

Yet—as Craig rightly said—we do need physical interaction.  We are social creatures; it is not good for us to be alone.  Virtual communication is a great tool, especially for the housebound, but I believe actual interaction is important as well—in whatever form: sharing a meal or watching a movie or chatting over coffee time [or gin time, depending on your inclinations… : how I loved the days in Ireland where I went to the pub for a gin and meal after church with the priest! ;-)] at church is a blessing.

[quote author="Hannah Gordon"]Should I get more involved in ministry in the workplace and city-based ministries in anticipation of having opportunities to share with my work friends?

I worry you are doing too much already!

If you feel “called” to the ministry, go for it—but ensure you remove any burdensome ministries where you are now: you are not Superwoman! ;-)

You have a great heart for your friends and colleagues, which is a wonderful gift, but I worry a bit that you are putting pressure on yourself.  But you know what you are capable of and where your heart is. 

God bless,
Ian.

[edit: schpeling ]

Friends

Hey Guys, just a few thoughts on the issue.

I’m sorry Ian, im gonna have to disagree with you an your position, in terms of friendship within the context of church. :

Hannah Gordon wrote:
This means that my friends are unlikely to visit my church, let alone come regularly! Most have their own churches and it’s unlikely that those who don’t would travel this far to come to mine!

Personally I’m glad this is the case for several of my friends—we have very different needs: they couldn’t stand for two hours at mine and hate the smell of incense; and if I hear “Shine, Jesus, Shine” once more I’ll pull down the building Samson-style. ;-) ;-)

Seriously: church, while no doubt a good place to form meaningful relationships, is to me primarily about God. I’m not there to make friends [it is a pleasant side-effect]: but to worship God. Why does it trouble you that your friends can’t come to yours? I may be dull, this morning, forgive me—I’m trying to give up coffee. :-)

Contrary to what Ian says, i think that friends are a greatly important part of our church life. Church isn’t just about worshipping god, rather also communicating with friends and sharing fellowship. Friends play a hugely important role in mine, and im sure others christian lives. Each time i talk to my friends about how their going in christ and how they are holding up in this dark world, i feel encouraged, not only because of their actions, but because of the prayer support and advice they offer me for my problems, and situations where i can share the gospel. Due to the newfound fellowship which i have had for the past 3 years in my church because of the friendships i have built up since then, i have come to grow soooo much in christ. My commmitment ot god has walked with me outside of the church doors and into my everyday life, i believe directly because of the encouragement they have offered me. Christian Friends are important, and i can relate to your situation Hannah, i once thought that these people (people in my church) had absolutely nothing in common with me, but i perservered, and have made some very intersting, but most importantl;y some very encouraging friendships. But dont stress Hannah, God will bring you friends, be patient, and try to become closer to the people who are already at your church....you may find like myself, the people you would never have once considered friend material can end up becoming a great friend and a great source of encouragement. But also bring this matter continuously before god, infact i suggest you pray for it now :)...thats right, turn away from the screen and pray :)… (i find this attitude helps me, because often i will never get around to prayer, and when i do i forget about what i should be praying for :) )

In terms of friendship groups...if there are other christians where you work (ore study if your a student), or even just other christian friends in general who are around the city, i know some people from my church who have a prayer meeting during luch time or after work 1-2 times every week with the christians they work with, they say its really encouraging because these are the people you spend alot of time around, and just for midweek encouragement in christ. Perhasps you should consider something like this?

In terms of whether you should consider becoming involved in Innner city ministries, perhaps you should consider this option,( but im not as aware of your circumstances as Ian clearly is...so im just giving you generic advice :) ). In the Southern Cross there are advertisements for christian/evangelical discussion groups at various locations around the city (pubs, restuarants, etc), focussing on various topics. Maybe you should ceck some of these out one day, I could see how these would be helpful, in reaching out to your colleagues and perhaps if you can find the time maybve check out inner city churches evening services (i prefer these as they are for me alot more relevant, friendlier, but most importantly around my age group than the earlier services), so that you know what these churches are like, in anticipation for people who will be intersted in finding out more about Jesus. But like Ian said dont ever stress or worry ewxcesively about it...Gods got everything under control, and he will show you the right way, whereas I can only offer speculative advice.

(oh and by the way Ian, whats wrong with shine jesus shine....i love that song :) )

Hope this helps

Your Brother in Christ

Chris

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the encouragement, I appreciate it. I’d like to clarify some things and ask more questions in response to your questions and comments…

[quote author="Peter Denham"]...it is good to build relationships by doing things together with people. There is then the essential movement from shallow relationships to more enduring ones over time that way. I do however wonder whether ministry has led to me having a lot of friends who I get to know for a while, and then leave, before getting to know someone else.

I agree. I think time together is vital, but in my situation, does that mean I should move somewhere else or work closer to home so I’d have more free time to spend with people? If (as I believe) God wants me to live, work and worship where I do, do I resign myself to the fact that I’m already doing as much (and sometimes more) than I probably should do with my time and accept that as enough for now?

[quote author="Denise"]...nothing like email, phone and messenger programs to help keep contact.

[quote author="Chris"]But dont stress Hannah, God will bring you friends, be patient, and try to become closer to the people who are already at your church…

Sorry, I wasn’t clear on that and maybe the thread title isn’t exactly appropriate. It’s not getting friends or keeping contact that is the problem. In fact, I stopped using messenger because when it’s on I can never get anything done!

It’s just that while I’m happy to hear from distant friends by email, phone calls, sms or on messenger etc, distant friends don’t come over when I’m tired but keen to have a few people over to hang out. While that’s something I do and am happy to do with one person, I still miss having a group!

Now if only I could persuade my distant friends to move out here… :D

[quote author="Craig"]Sometimes when we are in constant prayer God will show us how those we are praying for feel by allowing us to be burdened in some area they are burdened and one of these areas for missionaries is loneliness and lack of friendships - they know this while they are serving God and while it does not take the loneliness away it takes the edge of it.

Perhaps God is showing you areas to pray for those you are praying for.

Thanks Craig. I haven’t thought of it this way for a long time. Praying is certainly something I can do, whether or not I end up doing mission work myself in the future. It’s also something I always need to work on!

[quote author="Ian"]Why does it trouble you that your friends can’t come to yours?

I was thinking of Christians who were considering changing church and/or non-Christians who were interested in finding out about Christianity, not the ones that are already established in their own churches.

[quote author="Ian"]I remember at my old church [which was very youth / young adult focused], there seemed to be some unwritten rule that we all had to know each other perfectly, and we were all to get along and share deep, meaningful relationships.

Perhaps one reason why I find this situation discouraging and sometimes frustrating is that at my previous church there was only one group my age, rather than several groups of varying ages. I was privileged to have deep, meaningful relationships with a number of people there. I think I have high expectations - maybe too high!

[quote author="Craig"]I prayed and asked God to provide me with and to help me to develop good friendships (not superficial ones) and it has been happening - and the depth of those friendships that are forming is better than I have ever experienced before.

That’s awesome! I have been finding that I am much more encouraged by smaller milestones (e.g. progressing from talking superficially about the weather/week/work to sometimes getting responses to questions about the sermon, Bible study or something a little more substantial), things I may have taken for granted previously. I know some of it is maturity and level of comfort in discussing spiritual things (or even normal things with any depth), but I am trying to model and encourage this and hopefully that will benefit me and others!

[quote author="Ian"]If you feel “called” to the ministry, go for it…

I wasn’t meaning that as a calling or full-time work, rather considering myself as an active participant in already established workplace-oriented ministries, such as the City Bible Forum or Bible Means Business. Potential plans for ministry need much more thought and prayer!

[quote author="Chris"]Church isn’t just about worshipping god, rather also communicating with friends and sharing fellowship. Friends play a hugely important role in mine, and im sure others christian lives. Each time i talk to my friends about how their going in christ and how they are holding up in this dark world, i feel encouraged, not only because of their actions, but because of the prayer support and advice they offer me for my problems, and situations where i can share the gospel.

Thanks for your contributions so far, Chris. It’s good to have you here! I’ve also benefited greatly from the encouragement of friends, sharing someone’s confidence and praying for them is a privilege and benefit for both of us.

Your suggestion regarding prayer groups is a good one. I feel somewhat hypocritical as I write - I used to be in a prayer group that met fortnightly and I used to go to the City Bible Forum each week, but stopped when my workload increased and I moved to an office further away. Although I was sometimes tempted not to go to my prayer group, I was always encouraged afterwards and excited by hearing how God was working through us in our workplaces.

The idea of checking out potential churches for my friends is good too, but before I take time out from my church to check out others, I guess I should pray more for my work friends and seek and take opportunities to share with them…

Thanks again for your thoughtful comments.

Han :)

[quote author="Jason"]Hannah, as I’m older than you are, please don’t think any of the above was an older person offering some more mature advice to a younger person, as I think this topic is an important topic to discuss, and aligns with the ‘singleness’ thread, you and others have contributed to.

Actually, I thought that you made lots of good comments, regardless of my age or yours! I am sure the discussion will expand to consider them. Thank you for raising these points.

An immediate thought is that over the years, the various activities and groups I’ve chosen to be involved in (e.g. conferences, camps, a musical, missions, travel, etc.) have not been focused on one area and are often quite the opposite. No doubt that doesn’t help!

Han

Re: Friends

Wise thoughts by all. 

[quote author="Chris Entwistle"]I’m sorry Ian, im gonna have to disagree with you an your position, in terms of friendship within the context of church.

How dare you! ;-) No, I didn’t express myself clearly enough…

[quote author="Chris Entwistle"]Contrary to what Ian says, i think that friends are a greatly important part of our church life.

I agree; but to me I was not fussed about whether I have “close” friends at church, because I know Christians from a great range of backgrounds outside church.  I suppose this was as I left a church where I had many friends, to go to another churche as I needed more mature teaching (as well as a few other things): what was on my mind was primarily my relationship with God.  I suppose I have projected this a bit.  Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

BUT, oddly enough, once I took this pressure off myself about friendships, I found making friends at church a lot easier.  As you rightly said, people who I thought I had nought in common with suddenly became very close.  It is important to have people at church who are close to you, and they are a great help.

[quote author="Chris Entwistle"](oh and by the way Ian, whats wrong with shine jesus shine....i love that song :) )

To each their own...I’m sure your eyes would roll at the Psalm chants playing on my PC at the moment. ;-)

[quote author="Hannah"]
I agree. I think time together is vital, but in my situation, does that mean I should move somewhere else or work closer to home so I’d have more free time to spend with people? If (as I believe) God wants me to live, work and worship where I do, do I resign myself to the fact that I’m already doing as much (and sometimes more) than I probably should do with my time and accept that as enough for now?

I’m perched perilously on a fence, but I think that is a decision only you can make.  If you are having trouble finding free time, I may suggest you are doing a bit too much.

Even when I commuted 4 hours a day, I still made sure there was one evening (or two...especially when I started learning languages of an evening) and one afternoon/evening [generally Saturday] where I was free to do what I wanted: if I wanted to read I could; if I wanted to meet with friends I could.  I think we all need to have down-time and free-time, and if you haven’t got a few spare hours, I’d be worried you are doing too much.

[quote author="Hannah"]
It’s just that while I’m happy to hear from distant friends by email, phone calls, sms or on messenger etc, distant friends don’t come over when I’m tired but keen to have a few people over to hang out. While that’s something I do and am happy to do with one person, I still miss having a group!

Now if only I could persuade my distant friends to move out here… :D

;-)

I know what you mean: how about setting aside one evening every month or so where you get together with close friends?  It can be difficult, but my friends and I try do it—and generally succeed.  Unfortunately we are all so darn busy these days, it’s often quite difficult to get together at the last moment.

What about going out for coffee [or something stronger? ;-)] after church on Sunday with various people from church?  Several of us at my last church used to go to a wondrous Lebanese pastry / coffee shop after church once a month or so—I’ll treasure those times forever.  It was only half an hour or so, but we greatly looked forward to it.

Know you are in my prayers, Hannah.

God bless,
Ian.

Hey Ian,

You stole my post re

Even when I commuted 4 hours a day, I still made sure there was one evening (or two...especially when I started learning languages of an evening) and one afternoon/evening [generally Saturday] where I was free to do what I wanted: if I wanted to read I could; if I wanted to meet with friends I could. I think we all need to have down-time and free-time, and if you haven’t got a few spare hours, I’d be worried you are doing too much.

I know what you mean: how about setting aside one evening every month or so where you get together with close friends? It can be difficult, but my friends and I try do it—and generally succeed. Unfortunately we are all so darn busy these days, it’s often quite difficult to get together at the last moment.

What about going out for coffee [or something stronger? ;-)] after church on Sunday with various people from church? Several of us at my last church used to go to a wondrous Lebanese pastry / coffee shop after church once a month or so—I’ll treasure those times forever. It was only half an hour or so, but we greatly looked forward to it.

YES! YES!! YES!!!

Hannah, like you I am an extrovert and love getting know people more intimately. I spark off people and friendhsips really energise me. I know people who are quite self contained and stand in amazement. Anyway back to the issues at hand.

I endorse Ian’s ideas. When I lived in Sydney and worked in Martin Place, I found myself in a VERY similar position to yourself. There was a dear Christian girlfirend who also worked in the CBD, so we met once a week after work for a meal or coffee in a city eatery before catching the train home. The daylight saving months were good for this. It was a great time of mutual encouragement and disclosure as we enjoyed some of the blessings of living in such a wonderful place like Sydney.

At our weekly meal we ralised there were others who were probably in a similar situation. So we organised a monthly meal (as Ian mentioned). After church didn’t suit us. Rather a Friday evening or Saturday did. There were up to 8 Christian women in their 20’s committed to this monthly get together. An outsider would have ‘seen’ 8 women having a pleasnat evening or lunch together. However from the point of view of eternity we were encouraging each other to work out our salvation, to persevere in our love and trust of Jesus, to enjoy God and His multiple blessings, and to grow together as part of the body of Christ. It was a special time as we were all single (except for one friend), scattered throughout Sydney as our church was not parished-based and in need of more intimate fellowship than what was happening after our church serivce.

What about a sleepover at your place which would make the drive worthwhile or visa versa? When I was newly married, my husband had to go way for a few days so I rang one of my bridesmaids and asked if I could have a sleepover. We chatted away into the wee hours after catching a movie at the local cinema. It was fun cooking together and walking along Cronulla beach (what a bonus having a christian girlfriend living opposite the beach - YAY).

What about having a prayer partner? Someone who is committed to praying for you, any issues you are facing, and for your various ministries. Sending out a regular e-mail to christian friends would be good. Even better would be praying WITH another christian girlfirend, if that was at all possible (part of the sleepover arrangement perhaps?)

My children need my attention so I must away

Re: Friends

great thread guys..

[quote author="Jason Poulos"]Despite all of the above however, as Christian people we have something in common which definitely transcends geography (space and time), and that of course is what our Gracious Heavenly Father, the Creator of the world has done for all of us in Jesus, our Lord and Saviour!

this is true…

[quote author="Jason Poulos"]Hence the local church community should be a place where we are more than just brothers and sisters in Christ, but there should also be friendships, which would develop through following the example of Jesus: serving each other.

...and this would be nice, but I think reality tends to be much more mundane, which I was sort of railing against in my post Hannah mentioned earlier.

Speaking of which, it was interesting to re-read that post from abt ~14 months ago and compare with how things are now. Looking back, things have improved considerably, so a few random points FWIW:

I tend to have the attitude of trying to get myself in the best state possible (which is still pretty poor given my health, but i try!! ;) and since starting my v strict diet ~5.5 months ago, I’ve generally been a lot happier, which has helped a lot in how I approach situations etc. While it seems obvious, I think how you feel generally, matters, at least for me. You only notice the difference once you’ve changed (through whatever means, with the aim of reducing general mental or physical stressors). Making globals improvements to my baseline mood (for want of a better phrase!) generally improved things across the board. I think at the time I was seriously considering sussing out other churches, but I think I would have merely exported my same problems to a different place.

That’s not to say changes in place/people don’t matter, they do. This year there was some big changes at work (we moved location, some ppl moved on, some came on board, some changed roles etc) and honestly, while I’m only in the office 1 day/week, I’ve never had more fun in an office (almost too much fun ;) which has been a great blessing. I definitely click with the peeps there (who are all Christian obviously) so I guess the point here is: you don’t have to find your ‘clique’ at church. I know I’m incredibly spoilt :P to get to work with Christians and finding opportunities w/ppl outside or work & church is probably hard, but if you can, go for it.

These two things (better mood generally & good relationships at work) have made me more confident & outgoing generally, particularly at church where I’ve been enjoying myself a lot more. The last few weeks I’ll rock up generally feeling pretty ordinary, make it through the service and then think about ducking out straight after, but I generally decide to hang around and chat for a while, then end up staying almost to the death because I’m having a good time! Then when I do leave, I leave feeling positive rather than mildly depressed & despirited, which is a big change! A long way to go there still, but its interesting how I was initally focused on church, but other things changing inadvertantly led to improvements there. I guess I’ve just learnt to enjoy myself more, but that was only possible due to generally improved mood & improved confidence which had nothing to do with church at all. If I had of said to myself ‘I’m going to learn to enjoy myself at church more’ without the other changes, I would have been like a cripple deciding to learn to run… wouldn’t have got very far. Now i’ve found my proverbial legs, things are easier. But that’s just me!

Anyways I’m not trying to make this all about me, just thought sharing my experience over the last 6 months or so might give some clues!!

Thanks for the update, o Benevolent Dictator [bows].  Great to hear things are on the up. And I am in complete agreement.  Mood and work—which takes up rather a lot of our time for those in F/T employment—has had a huge bearing on me.

My most blessed work friend, who I am still in contact with, is a wonderful Maronite who was (and is) a great inspiration to me, and a great help when the depression kicked in, when I first considered the monastic life [he encouraged me to become a monk—though he knew a silent order wasn’t for me ;-)], and when I looked towards ESL teaching.  Friends at work are a blessing indeed. 

Angela—sorry for getting in first.  I’d delete my post if I could. ;-) You filled in the gaps I left wondrously: I especially liked the reference that others would see only people sharing a meal, however “from the point of view of eternity we were encouraging each other to work out our salvation, to persevere in our love and trust of Jesus, to enjoy God and His multiple blessings, and to grow together as part of the body of Christ.”

Interestingly enough, in terms of this thread and real life, I had three run-ins with old friends as I left visiting the hospital this afternoon: two people from my days at Cabramatta Anglican, and one from my time at St Mark’s [who is a nurse now looking after my grandmother!] A blessing indeed.  A quick catch-up, but a good one.

Finally, I have to add something that refers to something a while back:

[quote author="Jason"]Despite all of the above however, as Christian people we have something in common which definitely transcends geography (space and time), and that of course is what our Gracious Heavenly Father, the Creator of the world has done for all of us in Jesus, our Lord and Saviour!

Amen.  A few months’ ago [I think it was then], I made a comment about having nothing in common with most people here.  I unreservedly apologise and retract that statement.  No excuse.

God bless,
Ian.

[ edit: sigh...wanting to be an ESL teacher, you’d think I could correctly conjugate “to be” in third person singular, wouldn’t you?  But I didn’t. ]

[quote author="Ian Holder"]Thanks for the update, o Benevolent Dictator [bows].

No problem.

*note to self: spare loyal subject Ian

;)

I’ll join Ian, and chant “Praise God” for the positive changes in your workplace and in yourself Luke.

Hannah,

I have the expectation that when I commit to a church I will form genuine, real, masks-off, I’ll-love-you-as-you-are and whatever-you-are-going-through types of relationships with my sisters in Christ (SIC). I don’t have this expectation of all my SIC, but I do expect it & even long for it.

I know this is hard to do after a church service and over morning tea/supper. It would be unreasonable to expect intimate relationships to grow and develop solely after the church service. Size, numbers, welcoming newcomers and ‘the mood’ or ‘atmosphere’ created by a large church gathering doesn’t lend itself to such intimate relationships. If anything I sometimes wonder if the numbers and at church allow us to keep a safe distance from each other and therefore we do not have to get involved with each other nor be be accountable to each other. A veneer of genuine Christian relationships can be successfully maintained. Underneath no-one really knows you, what issues and hardships you are currently facing, as you smile at everyone “Donny and Marie Osmond” style.

However I do expect such relationships to grow out of smaller gatherings like a bible study group. As we share prayer points, spend time working out how to apply the bible to our lives doesn’t something really supernatural, Spirit-generated happen to create bonds of relationships based on the love and mercy and power of our Lord Jesus? It’s not like a hobby group meeting to discuss a mutual interest. As we open up to each other under the authority of God’s word, and through the power of the Holy Spirit to be transformed into the likeness of our Saviour and Lord, aren’t intimate bonds of fellowship formed?

It is one of the joys of my life to see my SIC or myself be transformed because of God’s faithfulness and His people’s love demonstrated in commitment and faithfulness to God and each other. Sharing in the joys (eg a birth of a baby, God providing a job, understanding God’s grace in a deeper way, organising an evangelistic event) sorrows of life (eg death of a loved one, child who falls away) together cement those bonds further.

I can’t help but think of Paul in his letter to the Philippians - the genuine love & affection, the incredible intimacy of their relationship leaps off the page:

Phil. 1:3-8 I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God’s grace with me. God can testify how I long for all of you with the affection of Christ Jesus.

Sometimes I wonder if I’m too greedy in wanting the type of relationship Paul had with the Philippians. So to this day I keep challenging myself on what I should expect from fellowshipping with my brothers & sisters in Christ when at church and at bible study.

Does any of this resonate with you?...or have I gone off on a tangent?

Friends

Hey guys

Thankyou very much Hannah For your warm welcome, and to the rest of you guys: talking to you guys and discussing the bible with you is a great encouragement to me, and something which i do love doing…

However I do expect such relationships to grow out of smaller gatherings like a bible study group. As we share prayer points, spend time working out how to apply the bible to our lives doesn’t something really supernatural, Spirit-generated happen to create bonds of relationships based on the love and mercy and power of our Lord Jesus? It’s not like a hobby group meeting to discuss a mutual interest. As we open up to each other under the authority of God’s word, and through the power of the Holy Spirit to be transformed into the likeness of our Saviour and Lord, aren’t intimate bonds of fellowship formed?

I cannot say how much I agree with this Angela, I have been in a bible study group for 2 years now...and i mark my past continuous growth in christ as being a direct result of this group, I aslo agree with you in that when you only form friendships outside of church, its harder to form closer and more intimate bonds. I put this to the fact that people are just less likely to confess things to their friends, talk about issues in their lives, or how their going in christ just because people as a whole feel naturally uncomfortable revealing these sorts of personal matters when there are other people close by, in the fear that they’ll be overheard, and just because its harder to relate to someone with the noise produced by the surrounds. Only when your in a group of trustworthyt friends, who your familiar with, and who share peersonal stuff with you, are you able to really bond, grow and encourage one and other in my mind

Any way thats the end of my speel for today

Thanks you guys

Your Brother in Christ

Chris

m sorry to say… Bible Study groups DO NOT build friendships… although they may introduce you to friends.

I could not disagree more. Sorry. Sure Bible study groups should not be the be all and end all of building relationships but I have come to know many people I consider friends very well through fellowship with them in bible study groups.

time together particully outside the confines of organised church activities… is what will build your friendships

Again- I disagree. Social activities are obviously important in our lives and in our relationships. But you can spend half your week meeting socially with people and not deepen your friendship with them an iota. Surely, as Christians, what strengthens our relationships with each other is building one another up, spurring one another on, keeping one another accountable and helping each other to fix our eyes on Christ. That can certainly be done during social activities but time spent at church, in bible studies, at prayer meetings, on missions, and at other church/christian based events is, in my opinion, integral to building our friendships with our brothers and sisters

Great topic guys. Would love to contribute more but need to fall into bed.