after a couple of unpublished shortlists lately, finally got one in, in response to the recent twelve tribes cult/common ground cafe expose
for context, here is the initial letter, smh tue 25/3/08:
Your paper has recently been full of accounts of the chaos in Aboriginal communities, where undisciplined children prostitute themselves to earn money for drugs. I do not suggest we impose the strict discipline that your article suggested was common practice among the Twelve Tribes community ("Sect woos recruits among fairy floss”, March 24). But before we dismiss the principles that underpin such communities, we should at least compare the outcomes of such an upbringing with the alternatives.
I believe all religions are hokum. However, clearly some are less harmful than others. I have frequently dropped into the Common Ground cafe at Rozelle, partly because of their excellent coffee and cakes, but also because the staff have created an atmosphere that is rare in these days of globalisation and mass marketing.
I suggest that those who wish to deplore Common Ground’s practices should first go to their cafes, sit quietly and compare their detached politeness with the ersatz “have a nice day” politeness in McDonald’s, Starbucks or Gloria Jean’s. They may be deeply religious, but they don’t ram their beliefs down your throat, they don’t blow up aeroplanes, and I can’t imagine the children of this community offering themselves to truck drivers for $50.
Tony Letford, Ashfield
and my reply, smh wed 26/3/08:
I agree with Tony Letford (Letters, March 25) that the Common Ground cafe in Rozelle is a lovely place to enjoy a good coffee in “an atmosphere that is rare in these days of globalisation and mass marketing”. I used to go there frequently until one day last year when I took home some Twelve Tribes literature along with their delicious organic bread.
I did some research and quickly decided that, no matter how delicious the goodies, I could not support a cult which practises brainwashing and child abuse. There are plenty of other good local - and even multinational - cafes that offer Fair Trade coffee and cakes. I guarantee that even if it isn’t quite the same, it will leave a better taste in your mouth.
Justice Kirby claims my colleague has turned a blind eye to the “central loving message of Jesus of the gospels”. Christ speaks of forgiveness but also commands us to repent. Sometimes I find it hard to hear, but I still appreciate those who gently but firmly point out my own, very real sins.
The Reverend Sandy Grant Wollongong
Herod did not appreciate John the Baptist calling him to repent of his sexual immorality either. Could the Herald’s treatment of Richard Lane be the modern-day equivalent of seeing John’s head on the plate?
Andrew Mitchell Gladesville
Richard Lane deserves praise and not condemnation for pointing out the inconsistency between Christian teaching and homosexuality. The current popularity of a sin does not make it right, no matter how distinguished the person. If God is going to judge all of us because of our sin, then we should be thankful to anyone who risks public crucifixion by warning us about this truth, even if we do not want to hear it.
The Reverend Gordon Cheng Kingsford
And not sure if SA:
If Michael Kirby was in the surf and Richard Lane saw a shark approaching, would we not expect Lane to sound a warning?
To be fair - there has been a range of responses from “Sydney Anglicans”. Including this one that was left out (At least - I assume they are a SA). I’m not agreeing with it - just putting it on record.
As a member of the Anglican Church and a recently elected member of the synod, the abuse of Justice Michael Kirby saddens me ("Admit your sins to the Lord, priest tells gay judge”, April 10). The Reverend Richard Lane’s attack, as reported, is the language of the Pharisees, whom Christ drove from the temple. Unfortunately these attitudes and language are typical of the Sydney archdiocese, as seen in the recent letter of the bishops justifying them not going to Lambeth. Long known for its patriarchal and implacable opposition to the ordination of women, the Anglican Church in Sydney under its current leadership has become obsessed with matters of sexuality and sexual preferences. The church should focus on its real mission of love, compassion and dialogue, extending Communion and the faith to all.
I do hope Geoffrey Sherington will brush up on his New Testament facts before representing his parish at synod.
As I recall it wasn’t the Pharisees that were driven from the Temple....
But I do have a delicious mental picture of what it might have looked like if Jesus had done it . . .
Letter writers might like to consider shooting off a Christian-related letter on the subject of Anzac Day and sacrifice. I just have, making reference to John 15:13.
Ideally do it before midday, as the letters editors seem to have made their selections by 3 pm.
PAUL Bugeja (Letters, 25/4) is indicative of the general ignorance of teachers’ situations that is rife in the community and the present State Government. Although not a teacher myself, I am married to one and know many others. I experience first-hand the workload teachers have and the kind of commitment and dedication required, not simply to survive as a teacher, but to excel.
Cameron Bell (Letters, 25/4) mentioned the preparation and administration done during the 10 weeks of student-free time (what some call teachers’ “holidays"); he also mentioned the weekly after-hours work during term time. However, he missed the regular weekend work and the relentless concern most teachers show in their search for the best resources for their classes.
Teaching is a mode of life, not a job. And the State Government’s miserly offer of a pay increase for an increase in “productivity” is insulting.
I hope that the frequent posters on these forums will keep making the effort to write to newspapers. It’s a good discipline and a great opportunity for gospel ministry.
The “clubs catastrophe” says a lot about the Australian psyche. Who would have thought that reducing the number of people dying from passive smoking and the money being wasted in gambling would have been a “catastrophe”? I know clubs do a lot for their communities. But if people want to support their club, why do it by gambling? This “catastrophe” is an opportunity for us all to do a bit of soul searching.
THE AUSTRALIAN Government’s commendable refusal to acknowledge same-sex marriages is really a recognition that historically, and across all cultures, marriage has never been recognised as anything other than defining one particular relationship between a man and a woman. So, rather than take over and redefine this word and institution, Rodney Croome (Comment & Debate, 1/5) and others (Letters, 1/5) should invent their own new and separate word for their chosen unions, and press for that word to be included in the law. At least that would be more honest.
Great to see your letter in the Herald today, Lydia.
Marriage by the book
Regardless of what Trevor Green can remember from his distant Sunday Masses (Letters, May 2), the biblical definition of marriage has never changed. It remains the same in the Old and New Testaments, from Genesis to Jesus, and has always been between a man and a woman.
While it may be appropriate to redress some discriminatory aspects of our society, for Christians, marriage has been instituted by God. It’s designed to be run by His rules, and they don’t change. Lydia Smith Mudgee
Note to self: stop treadmill, forget about private school
Thank you for William McKeith’s timely article ("Families pay the price in a world that never stops”, May 6). However, extended shopping hours and longer working days are the tip of the iceberg. Your article focusing on the Saville family in Strathfield reveals another aspect to the dilemma of parents and children spending little time together. As parents, we make choices. The Savilles have identified two choices they have made: to send their children from an early age to a private school and to invest in a large mortgage. They could have made other choices - their local public school, a smaller mortgage.
Spending two hours each evening trying to encourage children to do homework when everyone is tired and grumpy and you are trying to get a meal on the table cannot be described as quality time.
I have never managed quality time with my children over homework.
Quality time happens when you least expect it. It happens when you are just hanging out together or you have shared an experience such as taking a walk, playing in the park, reading a book, laughing together over a joke. You can’t really put these things on a “to do” list and tick them off like other chores.
It’s during these “hanging out” times that our children pick up our values as they get to know us and we get to know them. They experience a richness to life that no amount of scheduled activities or private schooling or a beautiful home can replace.
Sarah Condie, Newtown
The Condies are a terrific family. Keith lectures at Moore. This letter is very much based on personal experience.
RECENT experience leads me to affirm Peter Jensen’s call for ``spending a lot more time and energy thinking about the moral meaning of marriage between a man and a woman’’.
Two months ago I married my first couple, and attending the wedding were people from all sorts of backgrounds. After the ceremony, I was struck by the number of people commenting on how revelatory the teaching from the Bible was. One woman who had been married for many years had never realised how prudent the Bible’s teaching is on the relationship between a husband and wife. This wedding confirmed what I already held in principle, that is, sometimes to progress as a society we need to return to basics, and that involves accepting the Bible’s framework for human relationships.
Murray Campbell
Mentone, Vic
Murray’s the minister at Mentone Baptist, and trained at Moore College.
Mine:
PETER Jensen is right. Defining ``white’’ as ``grey’’ doesn’t change the way light works, it just brings confusion. In the same way, redefining marriage as anything other than a voluntary union between one man and one woman can only bring confusion, and also pain, as experiments with alternatives show.
Peter Fyfe (Letters, May 12) is wide of the mark in equating Kevin Rudd’s understanding of human rights with the PM’s “mates in Beijing”. Since when is the right to marry anyone you want a human right? Parents can’t marry their children. Siblings can’t marry each other. One person can’t simultaneously marry several others. These restrictions protect individuals and our society, and are consistent with the historical and legal definition of marriage. They are not a denial of human rights.
Being able to enter a same-sex union may be a human right; removing financial and welfare discrimination against that union may also be a human right; but it is not a denial of human rights to deny that union the legal status of marriage. It is not a marriage and should never be.
Chris McGillion believes the Catholic Church should change its teaching by asking lapsed Catholics what they want ("Papal pill remains a Mass turnoff”, May 23). It is an odd thought that church doctrine should be changed by a vote of those who don’t really belong any more. What the church should do is continue to teach what it thinks is right and check the Bible to make sure it really is right.
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