I am very interested in the development of what is happening in Canada, and the rest of the world in regards to freedom of speech, and the freedom to practice and spread the good news of the “Gospel” and the article on this link has some indication to me of things yet to come.

What comes first, “The chicken or the egg?” I ask this because of the state I see the church interacting with the world.

1.) Does the world standards of morality decline first and foremost because the standards of “HOLINESS and GODLINESS” within the church decline?
or

2.) does the standards of the “Church” decline because the standards of the “WORLD” decline?

This I believe is answered by the first statement, and in fact by looking at church history, the early church was able to impact and change society for the better, within a few hundred years.

We also when looking at church history, when we see the decline in “Holiness and Godliness” within the church, we see society being religious and the church being powerless to do any thing but to follow suit.

One case that I see a problem accross society is the militant feminist movement. Perhaps the church allowed this to happen, when men delegated their spiritual responsibilities to their wives in regards to spiritualy leading their families, where men gave their wives the responsibility to take the children to church, for their wives to do the praying, for their wives to do all the Scripture teaching in the home etc etc.
When men handed their “Spiritual responsibilty over to their wives, is it any wonder that in the natural it started to take place as well.

Again we see in church history stories of great revivals sweeping many nations, and in some cases changing and impacting society on a national level. The Welsh and the Wesley revivals to name a few.

Do we as individuals feel powerless to change the society in which we live, do we as individuals feel our churches are powerless to change the downhill slope in which our society is headed, then perhaps we need to rethink our values, our priorities, our motivations and our belief and trust in our almighty God, and return to Godliness, Holiness, Prayerfulness, Trustfulness, and Obedience and Responsiveness to our Mighty God and return to his standards.

I ask you what do you think, what come first “The chicken or the egg?”

craig...he who has an ear, hear what the spirit of God is saying to the churches.

Undermining the religious freedom of Christians

Thanks Craig. The issue of the secularist undermining of religious freedom is one that concerns me greatly as well.

I don’t think I have a theological answer to your ‘chicken or egg’ question, but I have been giving the sociological issues some thought.

The period 1965 - 1975 saw a whole raft of social changes so dramatic that political theorists such as Francis Fukuyama have labelled this period as ‘the great disruption’. These include the cultural movements that you mention such as feminism and gay liberation.

But I think the key 60s ideology that has undermined religious freedom is one that is rarely challenged by Christians - multiculturalism. In one sense multiculturalism is cultural relativism as public policy.

Thus it is no suprise that Canada - which invented multiculturalism as a way to appease (French-speaking) Quebecois successionism - is the furtherest down this track. Australia is not that far behind.

I have also researched this issue with Bishop Forsyth whose latest paper looking at the consequences was published this week:
http://www.anglicanmedia.com.au/index.php/article/articleview/656/1/43/

Thanks for this imput Jeremy, I had read this article and thought it was very good.
Recently I was in attendance at a fatherhood forum at Canberra, and over the dinner table the issue of multicultralism was brought up, and how that it is so good for our society.
My reply was that it can’t as culture and religion is deeply ingrained. Certainly we can embrace a little of culture involving food, I am married into an Italian family - though I can not embrace their religious side.

The conversation was turned to how culture discards female babies, how other culture burns the widows with their deceased etc, and the reply was well we can’t allow that to happen here.
However my reply was on what grounds do we make that law, our laws presently still come from a Christian perspective, which entails these freedoms etc, etc, etc.
Our laws that are based on good Biblical morals are slowly being eroded away, and it is up to us as Christians to stand up and fight the good fight, first in prayer and then more prayer, and then even more prayer, and then action with more prayer.

craig...the weapons we fight with are not carnal but have divine power…

the chicken!

figure I have a 50% chance of being right!!  ;)

Mike, GOOD ON YAH

craig