Jesus also firmly says that only some types of illnesses can be healed only through fasting specifically for that event. Jesus clearly said about the epileptic boy in Mark that “That kind of demon can only be cast out through prayer and fasting” Today that principle is still the same, I have seen and heard many first hand accounts of God moving in the healing deliverence ministry through fasting.

As well there are many case studies of revivials where many people prayed and fasted for Gods spirit to move throughout their region as well

craig

[quote author="Craig Bennett"]Jesus also firmly says that only some types of illnesses can be healed only through fasting specifically for that event. Jesus clearly said about the epileptic boy in Mark that “That kind of demon can only be cast out through prayer and fasting” Today that principle is still the same, I have seen and heard many first hand accounts of God moving in the healing deliverence ministry through fasting.

Presumably you refer to Matt 17:21, which reads “But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting” and Mark 9:29 which reads “This kind cannot come out by anything but prayer.”

The problem is that the verse in Matthew is almost certainly a later addition, see the note in the NET Bible:
[quote author="NET Bible"]Many important mss (aleph* B Q 0281 33 579 892* pc e ff1 sys,c sa) do not include 17:21 “But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.” The verse is included in Í2 C D L W Ë1,13 Ï lat, but is almost certainly not original. As B. M. Metzger notes, “Since there is no satisfactory reason why the passage, if originally present in Matthew, should have been omitted in a wide variety of witnesses, and since copyists frequently inserted material derived from another Gospel, it appears that most manuscripts have been assimilated to the parallel in Mk 9.29” (TCGNT 35).

Some ancient manuscripts of Mark 9:29 include “and fasting,” but the fact that it is omitted from some early manuscripts suggests that it is an addition (because reasons can be found as to why it may have been added, but none for why it should be removed).

Of course this is not to say that it is inappropriate to fast when earnestly seeking God in prayer (for whatever reason), for that would seem to fit with other examples of fasting. It just calls into question the specific association between prayer, fasting, and demon expulsion.

[quote author="Craig Bennett"]Jesus also firmly says that only some types of illnesses can be healed only through fasting specifically for that event. Jesus clearly said about the epileptic boy in Mark that “That kind of demon can only be cast out through prayer and fasting” Today that principle is still the same, I have seen and heard many first hand accounts of God moving in the healing deliverence ministry through fasting.

I searched for this, and its actually a footnote of Matthew 17:21. Jesus doesn’t say “some types of illnesses” but, in some manuscripts “this kind [of demon] does not go out except by prayer and fasting”, which are intended as demonstrations of faith I imagine, as Jesus chastises the disciplies for their lack of faith . Illness is not synonymous with demon possession - thats a myth spread by the unscrupulous imo.

And err… what Enkidu said :)

G’day Luke while I agree in part with what you say here,

Illness is not synonymous with demon possession - thats a myth spread by the unscrupulous imo

The gospels are full of antedotes of sickness being related to a demonic presence - so while not every case of sickness is demonic - you can not discount it as never being so - Jesus rebuked a fever, the hunch backed lady was bound by satan, the epileptic boy, the samaritins daughter etc etc.

the remembrance of the day I woke up with a sore left foot about a year ago after working a night shift had me convinced I must have hurt it the night before, that afternoon I went to the loo, got up and washed my hands and my left foot was no longer hurting it was my right. I started laughing out loud and said

“You dirty rotton demon, you stupid thing you forgot what foot you was on, go from me in the name of Jesus” and from that moment I was totally healed.

craig

At the risk of sounding terribly cynical, if demon possession as illness occured with any real frequency in our day and age, it could and would be documented, studied and researched. There would be numerous papers available on it in PubMed ( this abstract is interesting) and I could read about it on Medline .

But I can’t.

Luke can you tell me the percentage of doctors in the western world who actually believe in prayer and in God?

The number of Christians again in the western world percentage wise are very low who actually believe in the devil & in hell.

Imo I would rather believe what Jesus himself said over what rationalistic non believing doctors say. I have been in churches where the church no longer practices praying prayers for healing for the sick, in fact it was not all that long ago where the practice was frowned upon in Sydney Anglican circles, possibly in some places it is still taught that God does not heal, nor are we to expect God to heal us today - of course in those churches where the atmosphere of faith for healing was vitually non existant - healing is virtually non existent.

On the other hand there are countless documented cases where God has been prayed to for him to heal and heal he has, there has been countless cases of demon deliverence from all types of bondages - yet those who don’t believe will continue to believe that it is still not for today - thats the same scenario Jesus himself faced when he was in his home town - he could do little in the way of the miraculas except for a few healings - because as recorded in the gospel the towns people lack of faith.

Any way I think I will stop there, this topic has been taken off on a tangent enough, sorry Ian Nunc and others.

craig

Craig are you suggesting a global conspiracy by secular doctors, researchers and scientists of keeping the legitimate diagnosis of “demon possession” out of medical literature? If so this is a grave injustice against Christians and we should be up in arms about it.

I don’t think its fair to imply that there might be Sydney anglican churches teaches that plainly teach “God does not heal”. Either name and shame them or don’t make the accusation.

Craig can you point to any of these “countless documented cases” where God has been prayed to for him to heal and heal he has, just like that? I don’t think thats the way God works (tho yes he could if he wanted etc etc). However if in fact that is the way God works, and you added up all the cases where people have prayed for healing yet God hasn’t healed them (in the way you describe) I think the percentage’s of actual healings would be rather low, which would make God a pretty poor healer!

And on the (non) issue of faith - I think faith and degree of illness have a very close relationship - the sicker people get, the more likely they are to believe whatever crazy thing they try next will heal them. Thus the sicker they are, the more faith they have!

I wonder what modern day doctors say about the gospel accounts Luke. I wonder what they would say about the hunchbacked woman whom was bound by satan and healed and delivered by Jesus would they not say that she was just suffering from “ostioporosious” What about the demoniac who was out in the tombs whom Jesus cast the demons out, more likely today they would fill him up on drugs and just counsell him. The epileptic boy whom Jesus healed doctors probably would have cut his brain in half or fill him up on drugs or other type of help without actually curing him.

In Canons Glennon book, “You healing is within you” he gives the example of a boy born with “down syndrome” whose parents prayed for him every day for 12 years or so believing God would heal their son and he did. Doctors would today say sorry there is nothing we could do for your son.

Did you know Luke that in Uganda today many people 1000’s are being healed of full blown aids, and doctors over there are giving them a clean bill of health saying it is miraculas.

I was at a church service at Auburn a few weeks ago where they had a Aboriginee Pastor among many others who spoke of 2 stories.

1. The first one he said there are many rumours about his ministry and one of them is that he has raised 17 people from the dead” - he said “what a load of hogwash - it is only 6”

2. The 2nd story is that a blind lady was brought to him because she wanted to see, she was wearing glasses. He prayed “Jesus please give this lady here sight back” He went on to the next town and got a phone call saying “That lady you prayed for can see, so” he replied, “it’s what I prayed for is it not - you dont understand she had no eyes behind those glasses, God has given her new eyes. This happened in darwin a few years ago.

The fact is Luke that the majority of modern day doctors dismiss out of hand the whole idea of demonic behavoir as belonging in the dark ages, unfortuantly a lot of the church go along with this type of philosophical approach instead of believing that it is for today.

As an aside in keeping with the aims of the mission, what is the church going to do with those who come to Christ coming out of an occultic backround and need the ministry of deliverence. Are you going to say to them what was said to me as a young man by an Anglican priest -

“Young man there is no such thing as having demons today, it is all just in your mind”

I sure am glad I later on found a Anglican church that could help me in that regards.

craig

G’day Craig,

[quote author="Craig Bennett"]Did you know Luke that in Uganda today many people 1000’s are being healed of full blown aids, and doctors over there are giving them a clean bill of health saying it is miraculas.

2. The 2nd story is that a blind lady was brought to him because she wanted to see, she was wearing glasses. He prayed “Jesus please give this lady here sight back” He went on to the next town and got a phone call saying “That lady you prayed for can see, so” he replied, “it’s what I prayed for is it not - you dont understand she had no eyes behind those glasses, God has given her new eyes. This happened in darwin a few years ago.

Can you give us any sources, names, reports, etc. for further information on these events?

Thanks,

Timbo

P.S. Luke, this is probably becoming a sizable enough tangent to warrant its own thread, don’t you think?

G’day Tim, you could get hold of the last Transformations video tape, actually both tapes would make good watching.

On this tape there is a segment on Uganda and what God is doing in that country.

Luke here is a link you may find interesting

craig

Craig you’ve avoided my point about God being a demonstrably poor healer. What do you make of this? Is God’s success rate really so low?

Also, if Christians can be possessed by demons, it would seem that having the Spirit of Jesus isn’t really worth much, if it can be overpowered by such spirits (which is especially strange, as Jesus dispensed demons with relative ease, like you say).

Its a bit of a stretch Craig to say (or imply) that because Jesus, the fully divine Son of God & our Lord and Saviour drove out demons and healed people that 2000 years later you or I could do the same, just like that. By the same logic we could & should raise the dead and repair people’s flesh (eg replace a missing ear) with a wave of our hand.

I tend to think (especially after reading that article you linked to) that some people do want to follow the bible’s words - that evil spirits do exist, that Satan does have power in this world, but then try and find it in incredibly narrow views of “evil” with very simplistic thinking to go with it. Its ironic that people following this line of thought always seem to emphasis walking by faith not sight (as does the author of the article) when really, they are trying to create something they can see. That want Satan/demons/spirits to have plain and obvious detrimental effects of people, that manifest themselves in ways that are plain to all (if you “believe") such as physical illness, mental illness, addiction etc, the list goes on. They then also want to *see* the power of the God they believe in, and so they insist that these demon-caused ailments can be ridded by invoking the power of God, Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit. But again this is faith by sight - demonstrable cause and effect of the entity’s they believe in (God & the devil).

However this is an incredibly dangerous thing to base ones beliefs on, because when push comes to shove, and the harsh light of observation is shone onto the practise, the results are all together lacking, if not non-existent. Despite all the good will, the hype, the many people who really really really want to get better very few - if any - are healed, and the whole thing is shown to be a sham. And that includes a God and a devil that is based on these beliefs. Is that how we want to reflect God to the wider community, as a hollow sham that’s nice to believe in, but can’t stand up to real scrutiny? I certainly don’t.

But nevertheless people try and perpetuate these faith-by-sight ideas, relying on anecdotes of either individual healing ("Did you know once <some person> was cured of <some illness> through prayer alone?") or untold greatness in some far off land ("Did you hear that in <some country> many people are being healed of <some illness> just like that?"). However these great happening never seem to happen here - I wonder if those in Uganda are being told of the wonders God is performing in Sydney, Australia, curing people of, I don’t know, themselves. As for the individuals, well if you tell enough people you can heal them, eventually you will get some that you will (apparently) heal. Of course the effects are entirely incidental and simply proportional to how many people you come into contact with, but no matter, you only need one or two really good stories to convince one or two thousands gullible or desperate people of your power. You certainly don’t have to be Christian either, you can be a mystic, agnostic, eastern healer or a western BigPhama company.

I consulted my Briefing CD on the topic of healing, and two early issues had some very interesting accounts.  The first was issue 33, where an article mentions how 5 Christian doctors (who very much believe the gospel’s I presume!) were “so incensed by what they saw” at a John Wimber healing convention they recorded their reactions, and documented that the whole performance was nothing more than hypnosis and hysteria. The author of the Briefing article mentions several cases where Christian clerics and doctors have combined to investigate allegations of miraculous healing only to find ver little evidence that any healing had actually taken place at all! This includes the accounts of missionaries who have been in Africa for decades responding to accounts where “thousands have been healed” which seem to sporadically appear. One missionary says they all tend to follow the same pattern, great initial enthusiasm, which inevitably wanes, and the organisers move on. Harvest, consume, move on. What do they leave behind I wonder? Not legions of healed people it seems - this missionary had never seen one.

In issue 45 of the Briefing there is a similar story, but this time the healing ministry was being performed at a Sydney conference by John Wimber & co, and some people familiar to those in Sydney investigated the claims as objectively and as carefully as they could, and again came up with nothing by way of evidence.

Given this activity has been going on for so long, surely it wouldn’t be that hard to produce one, a few, or several hundred of the thousands that have been healed over this century? Yet they fail to materialise - and so does, presumably, the god that people claim can heal. What does this say of Christ? What does this say of God the Father? Surely this is incredibly damaging to his real cause?

If you want a more tangible example of God’s healing and evil in the world - the real issues facing humanity are not inventing medicines for diseases we cannot cure, but delivering effective medicines we already have! God has given us the cure and means to deliver them for many, many of the worlds ills (and enough to know about prevention for the rest in the West) - but because of the evil of mankind’s sinfulness, we have completely squandered the opportunity. Why do we even need to worry about “proving” evil through spurious demon possession when we have such stark, horrifically real examples of evil already?

Luke My own paster went down to Melbourne when he was ministering at Bomaderry with a bus load of people to a John Wimber conference at Melbourne.

Among them was a deaf person, during the night John Wimber asked for people to turn and pray for each other, “You know what ?” that deaf person was healed and could hear and rejoiced all the way home from melbourne to Bomaderry, now if you like I can ask my pastor to find out if he can still hear or not. That guy also came from the Anglican church in Bommaderry.

Luke I am a personal eyewitness to the following, not only am I the personal eyewitness they happened to me, I am not giving any I know some one who knows some one type of thing - so now you can call me a liar if you like.

*My busted knee cap from a motorbike accident was healed.

*I burnt my arm with boiling water, the Lord healed it instantly

*I was delivered from demons who I had given the foothold in my life through sin of gambling, porno and self abasement.

*I was delivered from a sore foot as I previously mentioned.

*I was also healed instantly after I tripped down a flight of stairs cleaning a office on Australia day 2003 and sprained my ankle.

*I prayed for my work mate on a daily basis for 5 days who had a 3rd degree burn to teh top of his foot and the doctor said he would need at least 3 months for it to heal. God healed it by the end of the week.

*I was interceding for my father in law who had just had 3 massive heart attacks in the one night for him to pull through and he did -( I had prayed for God to not let him die unsaved) not only that night but on another 3 seperate occasions through prayer did God pull him through. On one occasion my wife was called in for the breath and I was interceding for him and I had a vision of being in the hospital room with him and I saw a demon of death over him - which I rebuked in the name of Jesus and he went. My wife came home and said Dad pulled through about teh same time I had that vision.

*On our honymoon a huge storm blew up and threatened to kill us, I cried out to God for him to save us and he filled me with faith and I stepped to teh door and commanded that storm to stop in teh name of Jesus and it did, as soon as I said in Jesus name it stopped.

*I was asked to intercede for a friends sister who had had a big stroke and was expected to be paralised on one side. I was praying for days and one morning in the shower I had a vision of her being tormented in the mind and I rebuked the spirit of confusion over her mind and she pulled through at that same time. She walked out of hospital a week after that stroke totally healed. I must say I was not the only one praying for her many others were.

* My own wife was on the verge of dieing through preclampsia during her last pregancy, I was too distraught to pray, many from many churches from my area rallied around and started praying for her, i was constantly inundated with calls saying we were praying. The doctors came in to see my wife the next morning and said “we are confused your count is going down it does not do this with preclampsia it only goes up. My wife is still alive today thank God because it was a close call.

*I have 2 xrays of a bad back and a healed back - I hurt my back lifting oxy gas bottles and bags of cement, two vertebrae of my lower lumber were crushing in on each other, at one time doctors suggested an operation, I was prayed for at church , i fell to the ground and laid there for a while, I got up instantly healed.

*My eldest stepson on 2 seperate occasions was healed once of sunburn and a corked thigh, in the case of the corked thigh he was limping home from school crying - I picked him up and he told me he had hurt himself playing football and was in agony. He asked me to pray for him, and I did, his thigh went red hot 5 minutes later after eating a sandwich he was out the back kicking a football totally healed.

*On March the 17th 1997 at about 10:45am I was pinned to the church pew for over 3 hours and could not get up- when I did I walked home 12 kms straight, before then I suffered badly from chronic fatigue, I also had a bad limp from whre I had shot myself in the leg a couple of years before. God healed my leg immensly

*2 weeks later I was at a Christian camp where some people prayed for me, God spoke to me and said “Craig it is time to cry” I fought this and in fact shadow boxed with God under that hand. After the 2nd time God said “Craig it is time to cry and cry you will and 2 big arms come out of the air and hugged me, I both saw and felt them - Ifell to teh gorund balling my eyes out and ran to my room where I cried for about 31/2 hours, and then all I could do was belly laugh and roll around teh room laughing my guts out for about anothe r31/2 hours. Next day boy did I feel changed and changed I was.

I won’t tell you about all the other healings I have witnessed and been told about over the last 7 years since I have been going to church as I didn’t actually do the praying and you seem to scoff at that kind of second hand eyewitness.

*I forgot to tell you the time when a lady of our church woke up in agony one sunday morning her eyes stuck closed. She came to church and we prayed for her and she went to the doctor who could do nothing for her, she had to go to the specialist the next day.
That night at the evening service God gave me a prophecy for her, It went like this
“God says every thing will be OK in 3 days time, keep trusting in me”

That was on the sunday night, on monday she went to the specialist who said sorry.....we will not know any thing for 3 days whether you will see again or not. 3 days later she was completely healed. The specialist thought a kind of insect had peed in her eyes.

*Again another night God gave me a word of knowledge for a young bloke who was about to leave the night service for a dirty monday - tuesday sorte - no one knew about this . I went up to him and said “...God knows exactly what you are up to, he is not impressed - he wants you to turn away from your plans to have a sexual liason with this girl” You should have seen the look of shock on his face.

*God has given me countless burdens to pray into about various people, he has burdened me to write various encouragement letters to various people at times and most have given me the feedback that those letters were timely.

I can also tell you time where I have been sick and injured and it has seemed that God has taken a long time to answer - however Jesus is the same as yesterday- today and tommorrow - paul says that the gift of healings come 3rd or 4th down the list after Apostle, prophet etc etc.

All I know Luke is that Jesus himself said to ask, he told us to believe, and he told us we would recieve. If God himself said it how can it be otherwise, Jesus said though we must believe it is possible bEcause all things are possible for those who believe -

God commended people for there faith in that they continued to press into him for healing, they kept asking they would not take no for an answer.

* One last example, once my whole family of 6 people were sick as dogs, can you imagine what that would have been like, 6 people battling for the loo and the sink - Ihad prayed to God for healing and went to bed, about 2:30am that morning I oozed out of bed and crawled to my study, I grabbed my Bible and stood up and said to God “God your word says to ask, for us to believe and we will recieve.

I said I have asked, I have believed and we are still sick as dogs, now either this Bbile is full of lies and that means you are a liar, or your words is truth and you are a man of your word. God I said I have asked, I believe you will heal my family and myself - Now you have to honor your word - now pay up - my family must be healed - otherwise your word is just a pack of lies.

I crawled back to bed, still sick - guess what we all woke up all 6 of us totally healed with no side effects the next morning. I walked around the place full of fear thinking God would strike me down with a lightening bolt for the way I spoke to him, I have since come to the place of understanding that I was speaking to God as one who knows God intimatly and was actually standing on his promises.

I have since then prayed that way once or twice and God has come through in remarkable ways.

Either the Bible is the word of God or it is not. Either the Bible is truthfull or it is not. either what Jesus said is truth or it is not. john recorded Jesus as saying “I TELL YOU THE TRUTH (notice the emphasise here with the word TRUTH) I TELL YOU THE TRUTH WHO EVER (notice the word WHOEVER) WHOEVER BELIEVES IN ME WILL DO (notice the wordsWILL DO) WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING, IN FACT THEY WILL DO MORE FOR I AM GOING TO THE FATHER.

The context of Jesus saying this is in the context of signs and wonders, healings and miracles - you can not get away from it unless you use some bad exigesis.

I believe the Bible to be true, not what modern day philosophers believe.

craig

Just popping in to ask a question of Craig (it’s a question Craig - not a challenge).

How do you know that any or all of those healing incidents you described were from God?

...

Sorry just thought of one more question. You related the incident of when all your family was sick and you demanded that God live up to his promises by healing all of you and that if he didn’t it made Him and His word out to be a lie.

How does this work when there are thousands of firm, strong and ardent christian men and women who die every day from illness, sickness, disease, accident even though they (and loved ones) have prayed sincerely and earnestly for their healing.

Some friends of mine have a 4 year old son. He has recently been diagnosed with leukemia. They are strong christian people whose hope is firmly in the promises of God. They, and innumerable friends and family (including myself) are praying earnestly for his healing. We believe God can do it if it is his will. What happens if he isn’t healed and battles leukemia for his entire childhood and the rest of his life? What if his leukemia turns out to be the most agressive form and he dies soon? Does that mean God is a liar since all of us have prayed desperately for him and he hasn’t been healed? (God willing he will be healed- but what if he is not?)

Craig you keep avoiding my points :/

I don’t dispute your personal experiences, but can you accept that they are exceptionally rare for most Christians?

Also, in your experience what % of people prayed for are actually healed?  Are all people prayed for healed, only some, or only a few? Along the same lines, lets say the deaf person was healed at that conference, was the disappointment of say a dozen others who weren’t healed (to pick a number) and the effects it had on their faith justified by the healing of the one deaf person?

I’m surprised you’re suggesting that any Christian can do more than Jesus himself. That’s quite a big claim, and an interesting way to interpret the text. Do you know any people who have actually out-healed & out-miracled Jesus?

Jesus says in John 14 which you quoted “Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.” The thing is there was evidence of the miracles of Jesus - like you say people just had to reach out and touch him. But the sham-healers that plague today’s church don’t have any evidence (if they did it wouldn’t be hard to document) - how can people today believe in a God who performs such empty “miracles”?

[quote author="Craig Bennett"]Either the Bible is the word of God or it is not. Either the Bible is truthfull or it is not. either what Jesus said is truth or it is not. john recorded Jesus as saying “I TELL YOU THE TRUTH (notice the emphasise here with the word TRUTH) I TELL YOU THE TRUTH WHO EVER (notice the word WHOEVER) WHOEVER BELIEVES IN ME WILL DO (notice the wordsWILL DO) WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING, IN FACT THEY WILL DO MORE FOR I AM GOING TO THE FATHER.

The context of Jesus saying this is in the context of signs and wonders, healings and miracles - you can not get away from it unless you use some bad exigesis.

Craig, you are referring to John 14:12, about which we’ve had a previous discussion . I pointed out the the words “in fact they will do more” should correctly read “and he will do greater [works] than these.” This, of course, prompts the question, what works do you claim to have seen which are greater than those done by Jesus (and “greater” is quite distinct from “more").

Craig responded thus:
[quote author="Craig Bennett"]Yes you are right, the word is greater than more, however the context of what Jesus is saying is in the context of what Jesus has been doing in the way of miracles.

There are a few things from this passage of scripture from John 14:9-14

1.) John 14:12 I tell you the TRUTH, ANYONE who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.
2.) John 14:13 I will do what ever you ask in my name, so that the son may bring glory to the father.
3.) John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the father and the father is in me, or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

Stephen was not an Apostle nor is their any hint he was an original disciple, but was known to perform signs and wonders, Ananias who went to Paul was unknown except for hearing and being obedient to God.

Unfortunately you did not quote enough context to make this clear. Look at John 14:10
[quote author="John"]Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

This links erga, “works,” with Jesus words. ISTM that erga is used by John in a broader sense than merely to refer to miracles, and this verse supports the link (elsewhere in John ergon refers to any action, not specifically miraculous deeds). Indeed, John shows a particular interest in the significance of Jesus’ miracles and demonstrates this by referring to them as “signs” (semeion), and he avoids using that language in this passage (as well as in John 10).

Consequently I think there is still merit in the footnote to the NET Bible (although I do not think they have arrived at a particularly good translation of this passage). The footnote reads:
[quote author="NET Bible"]What are the greater deeds that Jesus speaks of, and how is this related to his going to the Father? It is clear from both John 7:39 and 16:7 that the Holy Spirit will not come until Jesus has departed. After Pentecost and the coming of the Spirit to indwell believers in a permanent relationship, believers would be empowered to perform even greater deeds than those Jesus did during his earthly ministry. When the early chapters of Acts are examined, it is clear that, from a numerical standpoint, the deeds of Peter and the other Apostles surpassed those of Jesus in a single day (the day of Pentecost). On that day more were added to the church than had become followers of Jesus during the entire three years of his earthly ministry. And the message went forth not just in Judea, Samaria, and Galilee, but to the farthest parts of the known world. This understanding of what Jesus meant by “greater deeds” is more probable than a reference to “more spectacular miracles.” Certainly miraculous deeds were performed by the apostles as recounted in Acts, but these do not appear to have surpassed the works of Jesus himself in either degree or number.

I am not arguing that miracles cannot happen today, for I find no biblical basis for that position. I do think, however, that we need to be careful what we claim on the basis of these words.

G’day Dani you asked,

How do you know that any or all of those healing incidents you described were from God?

I’m being sarcastic here “Perhaps it was satan who healed me”

I asked in Jesus name of course it was God who healed me, Was it not Gog himself who said “what ever you ask in me, what ever you ask of me I will do”

You also asked,

What if his leukemia turns out to be the most agressive form and he dies soon? Does that mean God is a liar since all of us have prayed desperately for him and he hasn’t been healed? (God willing he will be healed- but what if he is not?)

Dani the Bible says there is a time to live and a time to die, if you pray for someone to be healed and they die it means simply it was Gods timing for them to die. However it sure is good to see you are praying for that childs wellbeing.

Luke you said,

I’m surprised you’re suggesting that any Christian can do more than Jesus himself. 

I did not suggest anything, God himself said it not I. Do you not believe the word of God Luke

Joh 14:10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Joh 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
Joh 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Joh 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.

Luke you also said,

That’s quite a big claim, and an interesting way to interpret the text. 

How else can you interprete the text, God said it very clearly, do I know personally any one who has, no because if you study the text closely enough Jesus himself says I will do it.

And asked,

Do you know any people who have actually out-healed & out-miracled Jesus?

I do not know any one personally, perhaps you ought to do some research on Lienhardt Bonke a south African evangelist, while you are at it look up John G. Lake and Smith Wigglesworth - 3 men the first who is still alive today doing tremendus things for the sake of the Gospel - I saw at college a documentary done about a paralytic man who was totally healed at one of Bonke’s crusades, they interviewed the hospital, the doctors his family and neighbours.

Luke there is many documented evindences to miracles and healings today, many like your self don’t believe, will not believe and will just call those type of ministries “Charltans” and “Shams”

Joh 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father

Luke you also say,

The thing is there was evidence of the miracles of Jesus - like you say people just had to reach out and touch him.

It was more than just reaching out and touching Jesus, it was of desperation, it came out of faithfullness in that they believed there was no other way to be healed. Look at the samaritan woman who would not take no for an answer, she said “even the dogs eat the crumbs under the masters table”

Look at what Jesus replied to the centuriun who said to him, “Just say the word and my servant will be healed “ I have not found any one of such great faith.

luke when it comes to healing we need to come to the place of truly believing that God will do what he says - it can not be any other way.

We need to keep on asking, we need to keep on knocking, we need to keep on believing. It can not be any other way because God himself said so.

I believe the word of God, I know my heavenly father will heal me and my family when needed because his word says so, Gods word never says we will not get sick, it does say God will heal us though.

Luke you also said,

how can people today believe in a God who performs such empty “miracles”?

Well I just gave you my own testimony, I know of many more who do believe because of real miracles - I have never seen a empty miracle - I have always seen God answer my prayers, sometimes quickly sometimes over a period of time - God himself is not empty of miracles Luke - It is however his people who are empty of faith to see him work a miracle.

Jesus could do nothing in his home town because of the lack of faith people had in him - Gods words not mine.

I have never ever not seen God move in great power when people are expectant for him to do so.

I will however restate that there is a time to die and a time to live and sometimes when we pray for healing and the person dies we need to live with that.

Craig. God said it, I believe it because I have no other choice.