Congratulations are in order for The Bishop Of Canberra and Goulburn, Bishop George Browning on his recent media release concerning Freemasonry. It would be nice if the Sydney Synod could show equal compassion and tolerance to the Freemasons in their Diocese.
“Although differences in opinion may exist, our community is bound together by a commitment to the over-riding love of God in Christ, and COMPASSION and TOLERANCE that Christ taught us.” he said. A well over due message about Tolerance.
I hear the Sydney Synod will not allow Masons to use their buildings for anything thst has to do with Freemasonry. I wonder if the Synod will therefore change the name of their Sir Robert Menzies College, after all he was a distinguished Mason. And so to Bishop Hilliard and etc etc etc
God bless.
Russell Dobson
Blacktown NSW

[I can see a flaming coming on, Russell: better get out your asbestos underwear!]

*sigh*

What a shame yet another bishop outside the Diocese is going to be the cause of people in Sydney railing yet again against those evil liberals outside the diocese…

Re: Freemasonry.....

[quote author="Russell Dobson"]Congratulations are in order for The Bishop Of Canberra and Goulburn, Bishop George Browning on his recent media release concerning Freemasonry.

It would be nice if the Sydney Synod could show equal compassion and tolerance to the Freemasons in their Diocese.

I wonder if the Synod will therefore change the name of their Sir Robert Menzies College, after all he was a distinguished Mason. And so to Bishop Hilliard and etc etc etc

1.  Is this the “recent” release you mean?  http://www.canberragoulburn.anglican.org/HTML/NEWS/mediarelease20031125.pdf Or is there another one that I don’t know about?

2.  I’m not sure what you mean by, “equal compassion and tolerance”.  Equal to what or whom???

3.  I don’t think that changing the names of building named after masons is a priority, but it would show that Sydney Synod is serious in its resolve that Freemasonry and Christianity are fundamentally incompatible.

Regards

JD

I think he meant the Compassion and Tolerance that Christ taught us. As against the intolerance and bigotry shown by the Sydney Synod against Freemasons.
Do you know the state of play with this resolution ? As a Freemason can I enter an Anglican church? Am I forbidden Communion?
I do know Freemasons have been asked to choose between the Church and their Lodges, but what does this mean for say Bishops whom are Masons ?
Australia’s Governor General Major General Michael Jeffrey AV,CVO,MC, can he come to Church or will he be asked to leave ? Or will it be that he just cannot take communion ?
Is the Sydney Synod out on its own with this resolution ? Is there any other Synod in the world that feels the same way ? How does the Royal family feel about this resolution, does the Queen know yet ?
Appreciate clarification on the above. Thanks in advance....
Russ Dobson

G’day Russell, I got a question to ask you or two.

The only experience of masons I have are of those in our local area. The one church some attend is the local uniting church which comprises of weathly individuals. That church is very week - liberal in it’s approach to Christ etc. They recently stopped paying it’s minister because he came and preached Christ crucified, Christ being the way, the truth & the life - so he had to retire.

I have worked with and for many masons over the years and personally know and are friends with many. In March the 17th 1997 when I had my first in your face encounter with the Holy Spirit and I became truly bornagain I related this to my boss a few weeks later. A high ranking mason. He asked me

“When that happened did you see the light?”

This man and many were heavily invovled with the anglican church I attend up untill around 1967-69 untill the Holy Spirit fell in a very Pentecostal way - then they all left in droves the power and the holiness of the Holy Spirit was too much for them.

The question I ask you Russell is why do Masons put more emphasise on “seeing the light” instead of christ crucified?

Jesus himself said I am the way, I am the light that shines out into the darkness.

If any one denies that Jesus is the way - the only way, if any one denies that Jesus is the truth - the only truth, if anyone denies that Jesus is the life - the only life

Then they should have no part whatso ever in sharing the bread & the wine.

craig

Jesus is also the Light of the World.

God is Light and in him is no darkness at all.

Countless mystics speak of God as Living Light, and their experience and encounters with God are described as being permeated with the Light of God.

God as Unseen Light is the reason why we look “through a glass, darkly”, and it is the reason God sometimes hides his face; because we cannot bear to look on the holiness and perfection of God-as-Light.

I can understand people speaking of God as Light and the idea of “seeing the Light” makes sense to me, although I associate the idea of “seeing the light” with the euphemism which indicates some level of entrance into knowledge.

Having said all the above, if an apprehension of God as Light is not rooted in a) the Scriptures and b) down to earth Christian experience as expressed through profession of the Creeds, then it is “as a clanging cymbal” and meaningless - from a Christian perspective.

And finally, I am not a Freemason.

I thought it would be helpful to paste the resolution for everyone to read, so here it is!

“25/03 Freemasonry

Synod, noting the 1988 Report to Synod entitled “Freemasonry Examined” and subsequent resolution 9/88 of that Synod -

(a) affirms that Freemasonry and Christianity are fundamentally and irreconcilably incompatible, and

(b) affirms that Freemasonry teaches and upholds a system of false religious and spiritual beliefs that are contrary to biblical Christianity.

Synod encourages ministers and other Christians to take every opportunity to reach out in love to all Freemasons and share with them the gospel of Christ.

Synod encourages all Christians who are members of a Masonic Lodge to demonstrate their commitment to Jesus Christ as the divine Son of God and as the sole way of salvation, by withdrawing from the Lodge.

Synod encourages ministers not to participate in, nor allow in their church buildings, any religious services or activities that uphold, condone, promote or encourage adherence to Freemasonry.

Synod requests the Councils of all Anglican Schools to consider any association that their school may have with any Masonic Lodge, and to withdraw from any such association. Synod further requests that Anglican Schools neither participate in any activity that may uphold, condone, promote or encourage adherence to Freemasonry, nor give publicity to any such activity, nor allow the name of the school to be used in association with any such activity.

Synod requests Standing Committee to undertake the preparation, production and distribution of a clear and unambiguous booklet suitable for wide distribution, examining the key rites, teachings and beliefs of Freemasonry and explaining why they differ from Biblical Christianity, and explaining why it is wrong for a Christian to belong to the Lodge.”

Regards

JD

Just a few thoughts....

Firstly, I’d like to take a look at George Browning’s media release.

Sentance Two:

The resolution was tabled by Reverend Bill Winthrop of Lithgow and is based on his own perception of what Freemasonry represents. [Emphasis mine]

No it wasn’t.

As the first part of Resolution “25/03 Freemasonry” states,

Synod, noting the 1988 Report to Synod entitled “Freemasonry Examined” and subsequent resolution 9/88 of that Synod -

(a) affirms that Freemasonry and Christianity are fundamentally and irreconcilably incompatible, and

(b) affirms that Freemasonry teaches and upholds a system of false religious and spiritual beliefs that are contrary to biblical Christianity.  [Emphasis mine]

Synod was merely drawing attention to a report its own committee had reported 15 years ago. I think it is unfair of George Browning to characterise this as one man’s action based on his own “perception”, when it was simply drawing attention to a report on the issue and calling for action.

Secondly, and with what I consider to be breathtaking hypocrisy, having claimed that the resolution tabled was “based on his [Bill Winthrop’s] own perception of what Freemasonry represents”, George Browning then argues that:

My only gauge of Freemasonry and of Freemasons is my observation of the quality of their lives. In my 37 years of ministry I have generally found Freemasons to be people with integrity and with a heightened sense of commitment to the community.

Is that not George Browning’s own perception of what Freemasonry represents??

Thirdly, we should not gauge Freemasonry, or anything for that matter, by an “observation of the quality of their lives”. That position is simply unbiblical, illogical and untenable.

I know many people who live “good lives”, are involved in the community and have integrity. Yet they are completely God-less. It is unpalatable nonsense to then assume that the quality of someone’s life therefore makes them, or what they do, Christian.

And, finally George Browning writes…

The resolution is not binding on folk in the Diocese of Sydney and of little relevance to those outside. Therefore this issue is essentially a matter between a rector and members of his/her congregation.

Then why the media release?

So the gist of what you are all on about is back to last years thread on “Freemasonry being incompatible with Christianity” .
Have a look at this topic if you can find it. I seem to remember writing on the topic a few times and then the topic was all hushed up and closed down !
I was more after some answers to my questions re what happens now with this resolution ?  Can a Freemason come to Church if he chooses to stay a Freemason ? Can he take communion? What about attend say a wedding ? Any news from the Royal Family or the Archbishop of Canterbury on their opinions ? Do they feel you have offended them also ?
I am not asking these questions to be smart. Just very interested in the mechanics of “what now”? Because this is extreme stuff and I really think there is something or someone in that Synod that is espousing utter rubbish and nonsense about Freemasonry.Probably the Lithgow Bloke who had it in for poor old Mr Harold Coates OBE.But that is just my opinion.
Seriously, what now ?
Because you see, Freemasonry is not and never has been a Religion. It offers no sacraments, it does not teach Theology nor any system of Salvation- never has. period.
This extreme stuff is putting you on the world map, so I suppose Mr Jensen will be happy with that. The Bishop of Dunedin has come out and expressed his sheer amazement that such a resolution could get before an Anglican Synod anywhere, let alone be CARRIED.
Wonder how long before the phones will be ringing from Canterbury ?
Have a good one.
Russ Dobson

One more question, which is also important ? Will the Synod continue to accept the Tens of Thousands of Dollars Masons donate to Anglicare every year ?

G’day Russell, you say the masons have no sacraments, could you please explain to me what the ritual is all about before one is buried - is that not a sacrament ?

It is my opinion any one is welcome to come and sit through any church service whether free mason or not, as to having the sacraments of the blood and the wine that is purely a matter of conscience between the one taking it and the Lord though if you went up to the communion rail wearing a sign saying “FreeMason” up yours so to speak - then I would as the minister possibly refuse to give it to you because you are approaching the rail as a mason and making a political statement rather then approaching the rail as a penitent sinner accepting the symbols of what Christ had done for us - In that case you would be guilty of making a mockery of the event.

You say Masonry is not a religion.

Russell, if I joined up as a Mason, am I allowed to say to my fellow mason who is not a christian but instead is a “calathumpian”

“My friend without Christ in your life you are destined for hell?”

If not - Why Not?

craig

freemasonry

Hi everyone.

Russell wrote:

Congratulations are in order for The Bishop Of Canberra and Goulburn, Bishop George Browning on his recent media release concerning Freemasonry. It would be nice if the Sydney Synod could show equal compassion and tolerance to the Freemasons in their Diocese.
“Although differences in opinion may exist, our community is bound together by a commitment to the over-riding love of God in Christ, and COMPASSION and TOLERANCE that Christ taught us.” he said. A well over due message about Tolerance.

I would really appreciate someone (maybe Russell) explaining what IS Jesus’s teaching regarding tolerance.  As far as I know there is no or little teaching in the bible, let alone Christ’s teaching on the topic.  May be I’ve missed something and am in great need of correction (not the first time) and further understanding.

Sorry for being so thick but I just don’t get this passion people have about tolerance.  It seems to have become THE Australian “virtue” since the 1970’s/1980’s and had gathered momentum in public debates on many topics including Christianity.  Seems to me that “tolerance” is the yardstick that many people judge Christianity & various issues by.

cheers
Angela

Fair point Angela. However do you think Jesus is intolerant ? I doubt whether he is or ever was. But I am not a Theologian.
I do know Freemasonry promotes Unity and tolerance and does not discriminate against any Religion. Its members come from many different Religions, however Religion is never discussed in Lodge, nor is it permitted to be discussed (Politics is the other topic not permitted for open discussion).

[quote author="Russell Dobson"]Fair point Angela. However do you think Jesus is intolerant ? I doubt whether he is or ever was. But I am not a Theologian.

Jesus did not tolerate those selling goods at the temple (John 2:14-17), he does not tolerate anger (Matt 5:21-22), or adultery or lust (Matt 5:27-28), or hypocrisy (Matt 6:16-18), and ultimately he will not tolerate those who did not treat his brothers well (Matt 25).

Certainly Jesus did tolerate lots or things and people. He forgave, but forgiveness was never an invitation to continue in sin. There is a common misconception around that Jesus came only speaking of forgiveness. The truth is he spoke much of judgment and hell as well. The word “tolerance” is bandied around far too freely. It needs to be qualified.

So what is Jesus’ teaching regarding tolerance? I would point to passages such as Matt 5:38-48. Tolerance is not an uncritical acceptance of everything and everyone to the point of affirming all points of view equal truth status. Tolerance allows for disagreements, and for right and wrong.

The distinction here is important. If I meet someone who believes that the earth is flat, I will tolerate him and his views, but I will by no means accord them the same merit as those who hold that the earth more closely resembles an oblate spheroid.

OTOH, if I meet someone who believes it is appropriate to persecute the weak I will not even tolerate them or their behaviour. Do you think Jesus would tolerate this?

I hesitate to quote Paul because I know there are some who simply reject his teaching as being out of line with Jesus’ own teaching, but I shall because I think the this view only derives from a very selective reading of Jesus’ words anyway. Paul writes in Gal 1:8 “… but if we, or an angel from heaven should evangelise you with other than that which we evangelised you, let him be damned!” Thus we should be wary, not tolerant of, those who seek to mislead (cf. Matt 24:5-6).

Does any of this apply to Freemasonry? I do not know enough to say. But if it does mislead and teach that which obscures the truth about the Christ, then I would say tolerance is not an appropriate response.

[quote author="Russell Dobson"]I do know Freemasonry promotes Unity and tolerance and does not discriminate against any Religion. Its members come from many different Religions, however Religion is never discussed in Lodge, nor is it permitted to be discussed (Politics is the other topic not permitted for open discussion).

Perhaps this is a problem in itself. If Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, if salvation lies in him alone, if without him we are lost, and if we are his slaves purchased by his blood, then perhaps there ought to be no forum in which we are barred from bearing witness to him.

Perhaps we need to learn to discriminate against religions but not people?

agree with your post almost entirely Enkidu, as I too am a Christian.
I also believe there are times when it is inappropriate to discuss Religion.
At a Freemasons Lodge meeting there will usually be people from different cultures and Religions. Other Human virtues are discussed i.e. Fidelity, temperance, fortitude,charity,family values,brotherly love, to name but a few, but not Religion or Politics.
You could say that Freemasonry complements the philosophies of all compassionate religions I suppose. There is nothing in being a Mason that conflicts with a members religious beliefs or practices.

Russell can you tell me why the meeting place is called a temple?

Can you tell me why you have a person called teh most worshipfull master?

Can you tell me why the temple has a Bible or Koran in a most prominant place?

Can you tell me why God is refferred to as the great artitech in the sky or words to that effect, why are you discussing God and why is reference made to God in Freemason terms if religion is not allowed to be discussed?

craig