God testing and tempting
01 January 2009 9:33am
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In James chapter one, we read

James 1:13-15 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.  14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.  15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. ESV

Earlier in the chapter we read that God tests us and that this testing is for our good:

James 1:2-4 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.  4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing…
James 1:12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

It is often said that God never tempts us, but he does test us.

I have nearly finished reading through the whole Bible for the seventh time, and this time I’ve even read the Roman Catholic bits as well.

As I read, I come across many places where we are told God enticed people to sin. You will find it in the account of God bringing Israel out of Egypt, where he hardens Pharaoh’s heart, in the end of 1 Kings where God sends a lying spirit to deceive Ahab and in many other places. In the NT we read of God deceiving people in 2 Thessalonians.

They certainly seem to be being tempted by God.

Is it acceptable to resolve this by saying that James intends to say that God does not tempt believers, but that evildoers and those who hate God already do not enjoy this privilege?

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2 Corinthians 4:6
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01 January 2009 4:11pm
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  [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]

Hi David,

The verse in the Lords Prayer “do not lead us into temptation”: Why would Jesus recommend speaking these words to God in prayer?

Is he saying that God would never do this? Or is he simply asking for the person praying the prayer to beware of temptations?

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01 January 2009 4:21pm
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Hi Ken
I’m supposing Jesus is reminding us to ask for help in time of temptation.

Here is one of the passages which appears to conflict with James, where he has said God tempts no one

1 Kings 22:19-23 And Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; 20 and the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another.  21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ 23 Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you.”

This is a fairly well-known passage, but there are quite a few others.

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01 January 2009 9:44pm
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I believe this passage of Scripture is referring to demonic spirits. We know that Satan can stand in the presence of God according to the book of Job.
So I would say that in the Lords prayer we are praying that God will lead us out of temptation when we find ourselves being tempted....as the following verse says and deliver us from all evil...or the evil one…

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01 January 2009 11:07pm
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Isn’t the difference here the difference between the believer and the unbeliever - that is, God will not tempt the believer, but will (sometimes) harden the unbeliever in their sin?

   
01 January 2009 11:13pm
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But in James it says God can’t be tempted and that he tempts no one.
Then in 2 Thessalonians 2 we read he sends a strong delusion, in Exodus he hardens Pharaoh’s heart, in 2 Kings he sends a lying spirit and in Ezekiel we read something similar.

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02 January 2009 9:21am
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Perhaps these cases are not God tempting, but God’s judgment in allowing an existing course of sin to take full effect.  For Pharoah, Ahab and the unbelievers in Thessalonians, God’s ‘hardening’ and ‘deceiving’ confirmed their existing course of hardness and obstinacy in listening to lies and refusing the truth.  Don’t know what the Ezekiel case is.

Consider Romans 1:24,26,28:
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.....

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. ............

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done................ 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Here it is in context:
Romans 1:18-32
Ghastly stuff.  I suppose one might argue God just left them alone to sin as they wished, but to my mind the sense of it is more active and emphatic.  ‘God gave them over’ (ESV ‘God gave them up’), is there 3 times, and what ensues is a deepening and hardening of sin.  They are given up in the direction they have already chosen.  I understand this is the case for Pharaoh, Ahab and the unbelievers in Thessalonians.