We have one pastor on 80% of a full income because that is all we can afford. A mother with a newborn who can play piano (2 weeks out of 4). A retired person who can also play piano (when not away for months traveling). Another mother with newborn who can lead singing twice a month. A man who plays guitar.

The comment that if music is not great then may as well close down is not particularly helpful. We do our best but it’s not always great!

I would agree with Craig that it’s a better approach to have some live music, using fewer easier songs that can be done well with a guitar than try and do all songs badly.

We’ve found that cds don’t really work well for us. 

agreed.

We have a 70-75% unchurched congregation

wow! how exciting!

When planting a church, you must employ a professional worship music leader at least part-time, even if it means having to raise additional funds. We wouldn’t plant a church without a preacher so why plant a church without a worship music leader? To me its like having half of the pieces in place.  I have a suspicion that many of us believe our key evangelical tool in church is the preaching and we underestimate the importance and the power that music plays as an evangelical tool.  The music can be simple, but it must be done well.

“Amateur music leaders who are out of tune and can’t lead doesn’t matter, as long as they are making some kind of noise to the Lord in a joyful manner then that’s all that matters.”

My question to the above statement is would we settle for an out of key, amateur preacher making some kind of joyful noise out the front? The answer is no, we send them off to Moore for 4 years full-time first.

fair call!

Craig, what percentage of the explosive in Pentecostal growth would you put down to good music? 80%?

Peter Hawkes - 19 September 2008 12:18 PM

When planting a church, you must employ a professional worship music leader at least part-time, even if it means having to raise additional funds.

Having been involved in a church plant, I find these sorts of comments mystifying.  We started VHCC with a handful of people, of whom one ‘senior saint’ could play the piano, one of the young guys picked up his guitar and got practicing for the first time in years and a young woman who had never led a music team before and who could play the flute.

They were sensible and created a small set of songs that were easy to play and sing and we used those for the first few months.  They practiced hard and slowly expanded the set as we grew and a couple (literally) of quite good musos came on board.

That church is still small, but average attendence had more than doubled to be in the 50’s 12 months after launch and the church is still growing.

I find the notion that you couldn’t possibly start a church without talented musicians up front odd and I’m glad it was not taken on board by someone like the apostle Paul.

Don’t get me started on the expression ‘worship music leader’…

..

Thanks Craig for your comments. Glad to hear your church is growing that’s awesome news, and it was wonderful that you managed to find some dedicated “saints” to put their hands up.

I’m just throwing an idea out there that we focus so much time on ensuring that we get the preaching right before we let them loose on a congregation, why not the music.

All I’m saying is let’s be consistent.

Concerning the title “Worship music leader” please don’t read to much into it. I understand that worship is more than just music.  Feel free to insert a more appropriate title, I’m sure there are many.

David Maegraith - 19 September 2008 12:32 PM

Craig, what percentage of the explosive in Pentecostal growth would you put down to good music? 80%?

Very hard question. I think about 30% of the appeal comes from good music/atmosphere, and about 70% comes from compelling oratory. The music is important, but people go there to hear an engaging and inspiring talk…

Daniel Godden, music director at CCEC, came up with the following list -

All the Earth will sing your praises
Amazing Grace
Amazing Love (You are my King)
All Praise (ccec – available from www.singjesuspraise.com)
Ancient of Days
Be Thou my Vision
Blessed Be your Name
Blessing, Honour
Count the Mercies (ccec – available from www.singjesuspraise.com)
God of Wonders
How deep the Father’s Love (simplify the chords. Its not too hard)
How Great is our God
How Great Thou Art
In Christ Alone
Indescribable
Let your Kingdom Come
Lord I lift your name on High
Mighty to Save
Nothing but the Blood (Matt Redman)
Rock of Ages
See Him Coming
When I survey

hi all, haven’t posted for a long while.

but have I missed something here.

is there an assumption going on that our prioritizing of preaching over worship leading & music is some kind of idiosyncrasy that should be corrected.

some of the comments on this forum seem to suggest that a difference in value between preaching ministry and music ministry necessarily implies that a particular church (or groups of churches) does not value music ministry at all or does not give music ministry the value it deserves.

We all have finite resources and energy levels. I think that it is perfectly fitting to prioritise financing a preacher over financing a worship leader.

but this raises the bigger question of the essential difference between preaching ministry and music ministry, which I won’t do.... unless asked;-)

Peter Hawkes - 19 September 2008 01:25 PM

Thanks Craig for your comments. Glad to hear your church is growing that’s awesome news, and it was wonderful that you managed to find some dedicated “saints” to put their hands up.

I’m just throwing an idea out there that we focus so much time on ensuring that we get the preaching right before we let them loose on a congregation, why not the music.

All I’m saying is let’s be consistent.

I guess my answer would be because if the preaching goes off track then the people listening to it can have their walk with Christ screwed up big time.  Or maybe they can even be led down the path to hell. If my song leaders can’t sing harmony them the impact is not quite the same.  (Please note that I am talking about the music side rather than song selection).

I’m am however not of the opinion that you have to do four years at Moore College before you’re allowed to preach and I’m not sure I’ve met anybody yet who is.

And I’m all in favour of kick-butt music if those talents are present in your church.  I just think that the notion you can’t plant a church without it runs contrary to the evidence.

Craig Schafer - 19 September 2008 12:53 PM

Don’t get me started on the expression ‘worship music leader’…

That’s a shame, Craig. I appreciated what you said in the rest of your post, so would love to hear your thoughts on ‘worship music leader’!

Cheers,
Andrew

PS - And you, too, Kathryn!

;)

Kathryn Roach - 19 September 2008 01:09 PM

Craig Schafer - 19 September 2008 12:18 PM

Don’t get me started on the expression ‘worship music leader’…

Ditto.

That makes three of us at least.

A slightly tangential whinge.. .. ..

Worship cannot be equated with audible music. A young man I knew attended my church for a couple of years. He had no natural human voice with which to communicate.

In fact the only way he could speak (just audibly for us to talk to him) was through some kind of technology implanted in his throat that made him sound like a very quiet robot when he spoke.

Without that technology, any kind of verbal communication was impossible. And singing to God (let alone raising his voice in a crowd of more than 5 people) so anyone else could hear was completely out of the question - the boy could barely speak as it was!

To equate worship with audible music-making to God, would be to say that this dear boy would never, ever “worship” God acceptably. He couldn’t sing, could barely speak - did that mean he was excluded from worship? (If you persist in using the term “worship” to mean the singing-part-of-what-we-do-in-church, then I guess that by such standards/definitions of the term he was unable to worship God.)

Let the reader/forum-member understand - talking about worship as if it’s only or principally about the music side of things is not helpful. Especially with a boy like the Christian brother I just mentioned.

Perhaps now he can praise God in full voice, because around age 20, he died - less than 2 years ago now.

Tia Z.

Why so much fuss over the music? We sung a cappella this morning.

Which songs, Dannii?