Kevin Goddard - 18 September 2008 01:42 PM

There are 3 titles in the “Precious Moments” series which features the ( UK ) Keswick Convention choir leading the singing. And there must be almost 20 in the ( US ) “ iWorship” and “ iWorship@home “ series - the latest ones are about $30. Word and Koorong carry them.

Kevin I agree these are good resources. I think the work best though with at least one good worship leader to lead them, rather than the sound guy simply pressing play - but good suggestions!

David Maegraith - 18 September 2008 01:48 PM

I think they work best though with at least one good worship leader to lead them, rather than the sound guy simply pressing play

Agreed David - that is why we also have one or two song leaders out front with microphones to lead the singing in addition to the soundtrack.

getting back to earlier issue - does anyone else have a concern that we focus too much on getting the preaching right to the detriment of the music?

David Maegraith - 18 September 2008 02:01 PM

getting back to earlier issue - does anyone else have a concern that we focus too much on getting the preaching right to the detriment of the music?

Yes.

But that is not to understate the importance of the preaching!

(I’m sure that you weren’t suggest that, David.)

cheers,
Andrew

Most young singer/guitarists I know would do a Sunday service for, say, $60 a week.

Is anyone actually doing this sort of thing at the moment? I wonder how many guys there are out there offering this service…

well, they don’t advertise in Southern Cross! But if the job position was advertised I am sure you would have applicants. Trouble is, churches plough all their money into the ‘ministry team’ - which usually doesn’t include at least a part-time muso. Strange.

David Maegraith - 18 September 2008 12:31 PM

Why simple? Why fill our music teams with average? Why not work to make music in church as good as -shudder- the preaching?

Hi David.

‘Simple’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘not good’.  I would in fact argue the opposite - the basic standards are essential (not to mention the fact that people love them), while more complicated songs can burden musos and alienate congregation members who aren’t musically gifted (not to mention the blokes, as I’ve noticed that a lot of newer songs tend to suit female voices and emotions - this touches on one of Craig’s little bugbears I think:) ).  I’m actually seeing this happen in my church more and more with almost every new song we take on. It’s important to remember that just because the musos are capable, doesn’t mean that the congregation is - there needs to be something for everyone!

I agree with your basic point that it is important to fill our music teams with the most talented people we can find.  Sure, if absolutely nobody in your congregation can sing or play guitar or piano, consider the alternatives.  But shouldn’t the church family be the first port of call? I bet most congregations could find someone who’s willing to serve (and probably more skilled than they let on), who is capable of the simple stuff and could move up a few notches in a pretty short amount of time.  Why not encourage them to be the people who make the music as good as it could be, rather than saying ‘sorry, ‘you’re not up to scratch’’ and hiring a professional? 

getting back to earlier issue - does anyone else have a concern that we focus too much on getting the preaching right to the detriment of the music?

I’m pretty lucky to go to a church which is great at both. And as a muso myself I think striving for good music is good thing.  But I’ve got to say, I am actually more worried that in some spheres the emphasis on ‘high quality’ music may actually be having a negative effect on congregation members and event attenders, to the extent where there becomes a real risk of undermining the purposes of the music and worship…

anyway that’s my 2c.  hungry.  must eat…

nicole

Hi Nic, good response as usual. Many worms in the can, let’s try and open some.

Let’s draw a line between the music leader and the music team. I think the music leader has to be a good muso. Others on the team can be trainable, but the leader has to have a good ear, good chops and good temperament. What I’m exploring with Craig is the instance where a new -usually little- church plant is begun, and ensuring the music is good for that straight off.

Note by ‘good’ I mean honoring to God. Out of tune voices and instruments are not honoring the God.

Re training new/hesitant musos - great idea. The Beloved Bishop Forsyth mentioned this in a column earlier in the year - why don’t we have a program in our community to take young musos through some kind of training - like Wesley Institute does?

A bloke who plays guitar and drums came to our church, after having been at a church where they sing to Hillsong CDs each week.

In his church people thought a live, competent guitarist is not as good as a Hillsong CD.

I can see how a Hillsong CD could be better accompaniment than none for some [though people have sung a cappella for years and it can sound fantastic, and the term does after all mean “as in the chapel”.

By the way, I hear that the First Church of Elvis, Presleyterian sometimes sing a capulco...]

We also went to services where soloists would refuse a competent accompanist for a backing tape. Sometimes the effect was like hearing someone singing along with the radio, or a million dollar accompaniment for a 50 cent voice.

Paying musicians might be necessary.

David Maegraith - 18 September 2008 04:18 PM

Hi Nic, good response as usual. Many worms in the can, let’s try and open some.

Let’s draw a line between the music leader and the music team. I think the music leader has to be a good muso. Others on the team can be trainable, but the leader has to have a good ear, good chops and good temperament.

What good is a can without worms? Here are some more.

Agree with you almost 100% here - the music/song leader must be capable of the job.  Although I would say the most important thing which qualifies this is not skill - the primary quality of a music leader should be their godliness.  When I was first recruited as a worship leader it was emphasised that in terms of singing, anyone on the team could have been chosen (and others definitely would have been deserving) - it was the ministry responsibilities of the role whichwere rightly emphasised - It’s dangerous to choose a music leader the other way around.

What I’m exploring with Craig is the instance where a new -usually little- church plant is begun, and ensuring the music is good for that straight off.

Craig is welcome to correct me here but I read his OP as trying to find a basic song list for any church, newly planted or otherwise. Isn’t it important to get the basics together no matter where we’re at?  Notwithstanding that the basics are the easiest ones to get right, meaning it’s easier to create music which is pleasing to the ear.  Bread and butter (or even just an old piano) can sustain and satisfy when feasts can’t be prepared.

Note by ‘good’ I mean honoring to God. Out of tune voices and instruments are not honoring the God.

I assume (hope) you are referring to the band/music leading here, but even then I have to disagree.  God is honoured whether the music we make sounds great or like a dying cat, as long as our hearts are lifted to him when we’re making the noise.  Sure, it can be distracting (and of course isn’t ideal) to sing to out of tune, out of time music or mistakes, and of course we should aim to honour God with our best and most beautiful things, but technical perfection can’t be equated to a perfect sacrifice or perfect worship, from leaders or congregations.

Re training new/hesitant musos - great idea. The Beloved Bishop Forsyth mentioned this in a column earlier in the year - why don’t we have a program in our community to take young musos through some kind of training - like Wesley Institute does?

Some churches do - ours kind of does - but something more formalised would be awesome.  I’ll have to read that article!

Anyway it’s been a long day and the couch is calling…

Nic

Craig is welcome to correct me here but I read his OP as trying to find a basic song list for any church, newly planted or otherwise.

I was thinking for smaller churches without access to high calibre musos. My assumption is that a mature music team will have it all sussed out. But I keep hearing of and seeing small churches that are struggling big time with music - usually because the muso is playing music that is beyond them and the congregation. So I was looking for a basic list of songs that could just be done with a novice guitarist, and which would sound pretty good…

.

Craig Schwarze - 18 September 2008 11:59 PM

Craig is welcome to correct me here but I read his OP as trying to find a basic song list for any church, newly planted or otherwise.

I was thinking for smaller churches without access to high calibre musos. My assumption is that a mature music team will have it all sussed out. But I keep hearing of and seeing small churches that are struggling big time with music - usually because the muso is playing music that is beyond them and the congregation. So I was looking for a basic list of songs that could just be done with a novice guitarist, and which would sound pretty good…

Thanks Craig :)

Big/mature music teams sometimes struggle too - over the Christmas/NY period most of our congregation is away so we usually have problems getting a music team together, although we are blessed with a music director who has things pretty well sussed out.  But there are also youth groups, smaller events, prayer meetings, weekends away… I think most churches could benefit from the kind of resource you’re thinking of!

Nic

Kathryn Roach - 19 September 2008 12:25 AM

Your prayers for more musicians for us would also be gratefully recieved!

Hi Kathryn, do you mind if you are our guinea pig for this thread? What is your ministry team situation, are there any hours you can cut from the pastoral staff to give 5-10 hrs per week for a music leader?

.