Dannii Willis - 23 June 2008 12:44 PM

Part of what they do is send people to continue their trained profession in other less fortunate areas and be a Christian presence there, whether they’re doctors or engineers or accountants or teachers or anything.

As stated already by others - this is not the case for everyone!

Here’s an example - contributing to student ministry on university campuses in Mexico.

TZ.

Do you think any of the above fit your idea of what is really “mission”?

I’m going on a short term OMF trip at the end of the year and plan to work for Wycliffe full time, so I sure hope they do!

As stated already by others - this is not the case for everyone!

I think it’s a problem if it happens at all. It’s great that you know so many CMS missionaries directly involved in proclamation, but for CMS to send people whose goal isn’t primarily proclamation doesn’t seem right for me.

CMS is very careful who they send and people who go as professionals use all opportunities they have to speak the gospel. Missionairies report back each month to CMS about what they have been doing and are also visitied on the field . Some countries will only allow professionals in .
If you are wanting to do missionary work you must be very careful about being critical of other missions as the main difficulty for most missionairies is not the locals but putting up with/working with with other christians from other mission societies and theological backgrounds . If you have a specific issues with CMS i would encourgage you to speak to someone at CMS rather than putting vague comments on the internet.

Elizabeth George - 27 June 2008 08:21 AM

If you have a specific issues with CMS i would encourgage you to speak to someone at CMS rather than putting vague comments on the internet.

Well said Elizabeth!
Dannii, I’m sure John Bales (CMS Gen Sec, NSW) would be happy to tak with you.

Or if John Bales is tied up - you can email me directly. I’ve just spent 5 months thinking about a lot of this stuff.

I also strongly agree with what has been said about criticising other mission groups. The thing we heard over and over again while in our training was that the biggest conflicts we can expect are not with local organisations or authorities, but fellow missionaries. Can I suggest that an attitude of humility and service are key components of what missionaries need to take onto the field.

Pete

Hi Dannii,

Dannii Willis - 27 June 2008 04:20 AM

for CMS to send people whose goal isn’t primarily proclamation doesn’t seem right for me.

Their goal IS primarily proclamation!!!!!

If you believe otherwise, I would dare to suggest that perhaps you misunderstood or misinterpreted what you heard and saw from the person you spoke to who is going out through CMS.

I would also dare to suggest (from the nature of your posts on this thread) that you are less than well-informed about how CMS works.

I have been praying for and following the journeys of missionaries sent out by OMF and Wycliffe for around 10 years now (also FEBC, Pioneers and SIM).

I would say that CMS, and OMF, and Wycliffe all put equal store in gospel proclamation, and ALL three have this as their primary goal. It’s not like OMF/Wycliffe are right/good, and CMS in comparison is bad/wrong!

Dannii, I’d like to encourage you to please keep looking deeply into mission organisations. It’s really good to get to know what they’re each on about, rather than making generalisations based on hearing one missionary (and I wonder if you took what he said out of context).

Try the links I suggested above. Join up as a prayer supporter and member, get them to send you stuff - e.g. SIM sends out a great quarterly magazine reporting on the work their missionaries are involved in around the world.

I do hope also that you have read what Elizabeth just said above, carefully...I have bold-italicised some of her comments for you:

Elizabeth George - 27 June 2008 08:21 AM

CMS is very careful who they send and people who go as professionals use all opportunities they have to speak the gospel. Missionaries report back each month to CMS about what they have been doing and are also visitied on the field . Some countries will only allow professionals in.

What does proclamation mean, if it’s not to “speak the gospel”?

Here’s news to me:

Elizabeth George - 27 June 2008 08:21 AM

If you are wanting to do missionary work you must be very careful about being critical of other missions as the main difficulty for most missionairies is not the locals but putting up with/working with other christians from other mission societies and theological backgrounds.

Wow, I didn’t know about that last bit!

I learn something new every week about mission...!

I must say, the words “putting up” make it sound really hard! Hope I don’t sound to ignorant if I ask - is it really as hard as that??!?

Regards,
Tia Z.

{Edited a bit for clarity.}

“putting up” does not sound very gracious - i agree with you but all christians are dirty rotten sinners saved by God’s grace so they may well grate on each other especially when they are under culture shock, physical and mental stress and hardship of living in a different country under different pressures . I am sure in other mission situations people get on really well from all around the world and serve and love each other as part of a team proclaimiing the gospel.

I must say, the words “putting up” make it sound really hard! Hope I don’t sound to ignorant if I ask - is it really as hard as that??!?

Yep, sorry to burst the bubble...it is just as hard as that.

Each of us are different, and so relationships with fellow co-workers have to be worked at, just like any other relationship.  Sometimes, depending on the temperament and insights of the individuals involved can be more (or less) “hard work”.

I could (but won’t - my lips are sealed) tell you some things which now with my perfect vision of hindsight, were really silly and innane even.
kind regards
Gill
(missionary for 17 years - home now just as long)

Hi Gill,

Where did you go, what did you do, and would you do it all again if you had another 17 years to play with?

Regards,
Tia.

Hi Dannii,

I think you also need to consider the fact of team ministry. The primary goal of a ministry team would be proclamation but not every individual may spend a lot of time in direct evangelism. Some people play support type roles and in daily life are much more similar to Christians in secular jobs back home. However, their presence in the team is an essential factor in the healthy and effective functioning of the ministry.

e.g. doctors who not only provide vital care for people but also whose medical care can provide visas, a presence on the community, trust, openings for evangelism etc. In a well planned ministry an individual doctor may be very busy with medical demands and not a lot of time for direct evangelism. But the net result of their medical care is still increased proclamation of the gospel.

In OMF we definitely have people in these roles and I would guess CMS and most other agencies would too.

BTW, where are you going on ytour short-term trip with OMF (or is is confidential)?

Considering that I can’t remember to clearly what they told me, and I don’t know where the brouchers are, I’ll just drop this issue. Let’s hope for the best and that the situation I was told about was an anomaly and not policy.

I disagree with the idea that we can’t discuss and criticise various aspects of mission organisations, especially here on a peaceful internet forum. It is far better to find out about the pros and cons of a mission agency here and now rather than experiencing serious problems fifteen years into foreign mission work… And as we hopefully all want each agency and the people in each to become more Christ-like, if there are problems preventing that they need to be discussed and prayed about and fixed.

My team will be going to Tsugaru, Japan.

Hi Gill

A week ago, you wrote:

I could (but won’t - my lips are sealed) tell you some things which now with my perfect vision of hindsight, were really silly and innane even.
kind regards
Gill
(missionary for 17 years - home now just as long)

...and I asked:

Where did you go, what did you do, and would you do it all again if you had another 17 years to play with?

Still eagerly awaiting your reply!

Dannii, if you’ve had a chance yet to look at any of the missionary organisation links I posted earlier see first page of discussion), I’m interested to hear your thoughts as well.

Regards,
Tia Z.

Dannii Willis - 04 July 2008 12:55 AM

I disagree with the idea that we can’t discuss and criticise various aspects of mission organisations, especially here on a peaceful internet forum. It is far better to find out about the pros and cons of a mission agency here and now rather than experiencing serious problems fifteen years into foreign mission work… And as we hopefully all want each agency and the people in each to become more Christ-like, if there are problems preventing that they need to be discussed and prayed about and fixed.

Dannii
I don’t think anyone has an issue with this kind of discussion.  What some were responding to was your original post on this thread, in which you said:

Personally, I’m not too keen on CMS. I don’t think sending doctors is where it’s at.

It was the (apparently) unsubstantiated judgement that was at issue - at least that was where my own concern lay.
All the best for your STM in Japan,
Bob

Tia Zheng - 27 June 2008 03:52 PM

I must say, the words “putting up” make it sound really hard! Hope I don’t sound to ignorant if I ask - is it really as hard as that??!?

Yes, it is. You have to remember that in many places on the mission field you have missionaries from a wide variety of backgrounds with a variety of theological ideas of mission. For example, if you are in a particular location and proclaiming the gospel, what would you do if the only fellow workers near you were Southern Baptist premillenial dispensationalists? Or what if the Mormon missionaries (or JWs) moved in down the road also teaching “Jesus”?

That’s to say nothing of the differences in personality and temperament that may be amplified in the intense working environment of a mission group, even if you’re from similar theological backgrounds.

Mission is hard, and having an organisation that will back you, counsel you and support you on the field is most important. Having friends whose mission group disappeared on them mid-term showed me how important the work of groups like CMS really are. In many ways their commitment to sending people without making them raise their own financial support allows them to better focus on the gospel work ahead. That being said, I have many friends from college (SMBC) who have gone out with a variety of mission organisations, and most of them have been committed to supporting their missionaries in proclaiming the gospel.

Tia wrote: 
Hi Gill A week ago, you wrote:

I could (but won’t - my lips are sealed) tell you some things which now with my perfect vision of hindsight, were really silly and innane even.
kind regards
Gill
(missionary for 17 years - home now just as long)

...and I asked:

Where did you go, what did you do, and would you do it all again if you had another 17 years to play with?

Still eagerly awaiting your reply!
Tia I PM’d you almost immediately...short answer is Tanzania, Secretary ("ran" the Diocese (that’s what he said anyway),so the Bishop could do the missioning, also involved in Youth group, Church work etc)
yes I would go again, but not now in my “older age”.
Gill.