David, Phillip can be wrong too. Would he object to calling a foetus a human?

Hm
I’m not saying Phillip Jensen is always right, or even right in this instance. I’m merely citing his careful comments for Craig and others to think through.

He is cautious about labelling a foetus as “human” but he is happy to call the foetus a human in development, or something similar. I don’t have time to watch the entuire 28 minute video again, but again I say, it is well worth listening to his comments, including on God’s forgiveness available to us when we confess our sins.

If he’s cautious about calling a foetus human then he’s already lost the battle. Which may be alright if it’s not a battle he wants to fight. But if he doesn’t want to fight the abortion battle then I don’t see how it’s too relevant what he thinks…

From today’s Age :

Church backs end to Howard ban on abortion aid

Misha Schubert, Canberra June 5, 2008

THE Uniting Church has backed a move to lift the ban on Australian foreign aid being used to give women in poor nations advice on and access to safer abortion services.

Foreign Minister Stephen Smith is reviewing the ban after an all-party committee of politicians urged it be axed in a bid to save lives — citing estimates that up to 70,000 women die each year from botched abortions.

But conservative Christian groups have opposed any change, arguing foreign aid should not be used for any services related to abortion.

Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson joined the debate yesterday, opposing changes to the ban first imposed by the Howard government in a bid to secure the support of pro-life independent Senator Brian Harradine.

Uniting Church overseas aid director Kerry Enright last night told The Age his church supported removing the guidelines, which ban funding for advice on abortion, termination services and training abortion doctors.

“We believe women should be given full information to make informed decisions, and without that information, lives could be detrimentally affected,” he said. “…Women in developing countries should have no less information than we would expect for women in Australia.”

Australian Christian Lobby chairman Jim Wallace, who has begun a lobbying campaign to convince Labor MPs to oppose the change, warned that churches would be aghast if aid funds went to such services.

“The effort to increase aid money towards the Millennium Development Goals was done anticipating that we would continue to fight disease, free people from hunger and improve health — not kill unborn children,” he said.

Mr Smith initiated a review of the ban when he referred the issue to a Labor caucus committee in March. The group met last month but has yet to hold a detailed debate. It is expected to report back to caucus on June 24.

Pro-life Labor MPs were incensed yesterday after the parliamentary secretary for international development assistance, Bob McMullan, described opponents as “people who share (Nationals senator Ron Boswell’s) reasonably extreme view of this”.

One branded the language as inflammatory and “deliberately offensive”.

But Democrats leader Lyn Allison argued that it was an extreme position to deny safe services to women in poor nations who were determined to procure an abortion.

“The majority of people in the world live in countries where abortion is legal, as it is in Australia, and our aid should reflect that,” she said.

“The price of pandering to a small band of religious extremists is thousands of women dying every year from abortions performed by people without medical training.”

Church backs move to end ban

Phillip and Kel both speak compassionately and thoughtfully in the conversation, clearly showing they are opposed to abortion in almost all circumstances. They also address those who have had abortions with Christian love and wisdom.

However, they say that some of those who have often campaigned the most vigorously against abortion have not always been helpful in their comments.

Phillip Jensen is carefully using language, and does not want to call a developing human a baby. But he is not accommodating to those who want us to think of this new life as something sub-human or part of the mother’s body either.

From yesterday’s Herald-Sun :

MP’s fetus image email outrages colleagues
By John Ferguson
June 05, 2008 Article from: Herald-Sun

AN anti-abortion MP has sparked outrage after emailing Victorian colleagues a graphic image of a fetus being operated on.

DLP Upper House MP Peter Kavanagh yesterday emailed all state MPs an image of a then 21-week-old fetus being operated on.

The fetus appears to be holding the hand of a medico, who was performing life-saving surgery. The fetus was not being aborted but was used by Mr Kavanagh as evidence that life does not start at birth.

Mr Kavanagh received several responses.

Liberal MP Ken Smith was furious the image was sent, adding that only “a very sick man” would use the operation to back his case.

“I just can’t believe he could send that stuff around,” Mr Smith said.

“It looks so awful. It’s no way to present an argument; it turns out it’s a premature baby. I just find what he’s done is despicable.”

Mr Kavanagh, who along with the Greens holds the balance of power in the Upper House, was a shock victor in the last state election under voting reforms.

The DLP has strong links with the Catholic Church.

Mr Kavanagh said there had been a strong reaction to the photograph, which is nearly a decade old.

He said the reaction from MPs had been divided, but he believed many did not realise the fetus was in fact alive.

“It isn’t an abortion,” he said. “ It was a powerful image and it was unfortunate that MPs did not engage in the debate.

“I think they’re required to debate and keep an open mind,” he said.

“It has relevance to the abortion debate.”

The email comes as Victorian MPs prepare to decide whether abortion should still be a crime in Victoria.

article

Victoria law update :

Women free to abort up to 24 weeks

Article from: AAP August 19, 2008 02:03pm

VICTORIAN women will have the freedom to have an abortion at up to 24 weeks gestation, but later terminations will be more heavily regulated under changes to abortion laws announced today.

Under the new laws, doctors will decide if an abortion is appropriate after 24 weeks based on the woman’s physical, psychological and social circumstances.

They must also seek a second opinion from another medical practitioner that supports their decision.

The details of the bill to decriminalise abortion in Victoria were unveiled by Women’s Affairs Minister Maxine Morand and Health Minister Daniel Andrews.

Ms Morand will table the bill in state parliament later today.

link

Thank you Kevin for your interest.

Re nomenclature, we try to avoid “foetus” as it dehumanises, using in preference “the unborn child”, or “developing human life/being”, etc, but not “baby”.

We (i.e. pro life Victorians) would very much appreciate your prayers as we try to impact the political process. You can be sure what is done in Victoria will come to your State, because at the very least an unregulated industry is about to get some regulation even if we don’t like the shape of the legislation.

Even though late term abortions are terrible they constitute well below 1% of all abortions. The legislation will have the effect of making an abortion up to 24 weeks possible upon the simple request of the woman concerned, no cooling off period, no mandatory referral to counselling, no anti coercion provisions, in short nothing that might reduce the level of abortions below the current one abortion for every three live births, nothing that might offer sympathetic support to a woman, all too often deserted by her sexual partner, who in rather more cases than people are prepared to acknowledge are liable to trauma that will extend for decades after an abortion: flashbacks, anniversary reactions, temptations to suicide, difficulties in maintaining and developing relationships, turning to drugs, increased susceptibility to breast or other cancers, etc.

There will be many amendments in Parliament put up by pro life MPS, both Labor and Coalition.

The 2nd reading speech is today, and the 3rd reading and vote is set for the 9th September. In other words the Government which believes the Bill will have the clear support of parliamentarians is being rushed through. (Today is also the day when we also have the 3rd reading speech and vote to give approval to euthanasia - we think this Bill will be lost)

The pro life camp (which is almost exclusively Christian) is divided into two camps, the Right to Life people (mainly Catholic) who make most of the noise and campaign exclusively against abortion and another group, the Ad Hoc Interfaith group which draws together persons across the Catholic Protestant Orthodox divide with some Jewish and Muslim involvement. This latter group also opposes abortion but in addition argues the plight of women as well, drawing attention – and trying to do so without detracting from the anti abortion message – to those measures which support women (remembering the old adage that what is good for the mother is good for the child)

The Ad Hoc group will be writing to every MP and is organising a meeting in Parliament House the day before the vote is taken and mobilising a big letter writing campaign.

I am a part of the Ad Hoc group led by Nicholas Tonti Filippini from the John Paul II Institute for Marriage and Family – we have evangelical Anglicans, big church Pentecostals, confessing UCA types, Lutherans, SDAs, Catholics, Orthodox, Jewish, Presbyterians Australian Christian Lobby and we hope Family Values Australia (previously known as Festival of LIght) involved.

The Presbyterians will separately put in a submission as well, as will a number of other churches. Official Anglicans, UCA, Baptist and Church of Christ are either not helpful or too badly split on the issue or else uninterested to be any help at all.

Please remember us all and our politicians in your prayers.