I’ve been wondering about the biblical concept of fasting - ie: going without food and how it relates to us in 2008. Why would you do it? What is it for?
Have you done it yourself?
I was thinking of doing it in a way which ties in with prayer. I have some particular prayer points for which I am seeking God’s strength, support in and leading over.

I’ve really heard very little (or nothing at all?) from friends about it and I’m not sure that I’ve ever heard it encouraged or put forward as an application point in a sermon or anything.

I suppose I’m thinking that fasting can be a way of denoting the great importance of something you are praying about. So hungry are you for ‘spiritual feeding’ that you consider physical feeding of secondary importance. Perhaps fasting is a way of denoting that emphasis.
Saying in a sense “Lord, I understand that only your Spirit can satisfy my deepest need for spiritual nourishment.”

Then I think about how it could probably be very easily turned into a sort of ‘spiritual blackmail’ or a form of ‘good works’ which ‘earn’ an answer from God.
Speaking very subjectively I also note that I have a tendancy to run to food with the aim of making me feel good, so for me fasting might represent ‘running to the source of true comfort and strength” and so could be a form of ‘worship’.

Mmmmm.

Anyone?

I’ve got no opinions of my own to help you, but i was reading ’God is the Gospel‘ by John Piper today and came across a short section in which he advocates (with certain reservations, and with particular understanding) Christians fasting, on pages 140 and 141.

You can get a free PDF copy of the book here: http://www.desiringgod.org/media/pdf/books_bgg/books_bgg.pdf

It might be worth reading the entire chapter to get a more clear and full picture of what he is actually advocating. Hope it helps you to keep on thinking about fasting.

about the biblical concept of fasting - ie: going without food and how it relates to us in 2008. Why would you do it? What is it for?

I think that it is good to take on physical challenges such as fasting ---it helps to connect your body and mind with the the world, with the reality of life, and that includes our creator God.
The challenge is obviously diferent for every person. Fasting is a disaster for me---it only gives me pain because my guts have many sensitive physical disabilities.  My choice of physical and mental challenge is bushwalking----carting 20 Kg up Mt Blue Dog in the Blue Mountains. Others find Sky diving is the go.

I find chopping wood the go.

This one time, I was busting up an old hardwood fence I had, and then this one bit got cranky with me busting it with the huge block splitter I was wielding like a madman, and this one bit used all the power of a disastrously placed fulcrum, took all the force of my block-splitter swing, the fence post swung around the nail fulcrum and MAGNIFIED ALL THAT FORCE STRAIGHT INTO MY BIG TOE! 

So that was my self-imposed “physical challenge” to thoroughly connect my soul to my body to test my godliness. I think I failed....

Doug Leverett - 09 April 2008 11:15 AM

....  My choice of physical and mental challenge is bushwalking----carting 20 Kg up Mt Blue Dog in the Blue Mountains.

Hey Doug,

Is that 20kg your lunch ? That’s what I call a challenge !

I’m just about to go for a bushwalk (in about 20 mins!)
Only taking a 5kg lunch i think.
But there’s got to be more to fasting than simply a ‘physical challenge’, surely.
I had a look at Tom’s link to John Pipers book and it expressed clearly what I think was a half baked understanding that I had formed.

Piper writes:
Which means that bread (read as “FOOD") magnifies Christ in two ways: by being eaten with gratitude for his goodness, and by being forfeited out of
hunger for God himself. When we eat, we taste the emblem of our
heavenly food—the Bread of Life. And when we fast we say, “I love
the Reality above the emblem.” In the heart of the saint both eating
and fasting are worship. Both magnify Christ. Both send the heart—
grateful and yearning—to the Giver. Each has its appointed place
and each has its danger. The danger of eating is that we fall in love
with the gift; the danger of fasting is that we belittle the gift and
glory in our will-power.

Yeah, my problem is that AND the fact that Jesus asked people why his disciples should fast when the Groom was with them.

Isn’t the Groom still with us?

Blaise,

John Piper has written a whole book on the subject of fasting, ‘A Hunger for God’.  I found it very helpful.  It’s available at Koorong: http://orders.koorong.com/search/details.jhtml?code=0891079661.

Bob

Dave Lankshear - 09 April 2008 01:23 PM

Yeah, my problem is that AND the fact that Jesus asked people why his disciples should fast when the Groom was with them.

Isn’t the Groom still with us?

Dave

I don’t think Jesus was condemning the practice of fasting per se, but rather the underlying attitude of those who were criticisng his disciples for not fasting.

Bob

This is a slight hobby-horse of mine. I believe that there are no commands in the Bible which are applicable to Christians that we should fast. Of course it’s fine if people do it because they find it helpful, but I don’t think it can be put forward as either (1) something which we all ought to do, or even (2) something which of itself has any particular spiritual benefit. We can see the dangers of spiritual pride intruding in the Lenten practices of the Roman Catholic church, and to take it further afield, in the fasting of Muslims at Ramadan. (I speak as someone who has lived in a Muslim country and seen Ramadan in practice.)
I am not of course suggesting that anyone here would take it on in that spirit. But it seems to me that it is so obviously something that creates a temptation for people to be proud of (not to mention how easily our pro-diet, pro-beauty societal values would support that) that there are positive dangers in suggesting that it can be helpful for people. Those dangers can of course in one’s personal life be avoided, but they ought not to be ignored.
Paul it seems to me recognises some of these dangers in 1 Tim 4:3 where the people he condemns are those who “forbid marriage and demand abstinence from foods”. Again, these people were no doubt going overboard. But there is a tendency in the human heart to think that by denying ourselves stuff we somehow please God. So I would be reluctant to see fasting as a suggested spiritual exercise.
There are of course examples of fasting in the NT (eg Acts 13:2). But simply because the early church sometimes did it, does not necessarily mean that it is to be commended as helpful or godly practice. And I agree with the previous comment that it does indeed seem to be contrary to Jesus’ words about the Bridegroom having arrived.

Hi Neil.
Yes, I hadn’t thought about the Bridegroom angle. Interesting.
For me personally, I think i’ve decided on aiming for SELF CONTROL and MODERATION in my eating rather than actual fasting. I do greatly lack restraint, which I want to address - but I don’t perhaps need to fast! I do tend to jump to extremes.
Anyway, I couldn’t agree more with your saying that it shouldn’t be taken as a directive to follow from the NT.
Blaise

Neil Foster - 10 April 2008 03:47 PM

This is a slight hobby-horse of mine. I believe that there are no commands in the Bible which are applicable to Christians that we should fast. Of course it’s fine if people do it because they find it helpful, but I don’t think it can be put forward as either (1) something which we all ought to do, or even (2) something which of itself has any particular spiritual benefit.

Neil
I don’t think anyone has been suggesting that Christians ought to fast or that the Bible commands us to do so.  I thought this discussion was about whether or not it can be helpful.

. . . it seems to me that it is so obviously something that creates a temptation for people to be proud of (not to mention how easily our pro-diet, pro-beauty societal values would support that) that there are positive dangers in suggesting that it can be helpful for people.

I don’t think a potential danger is much of an argument against fasting or any other discipline.  Those who attend church regularly will most likely be tempted to pride in comparing themselves to the less regular attender.  Those who have a consistent practice of prayer will certainly be tempted to pride—Jesus specifically warned us of this danger, Matt 6:5-8; and he treated fasting in the same way—even to the extent of making sure others know about it!  And anyone who serves Christ in any kind of leadership role will need to keep a constant watch against pride.  None of this means that we shouldn’t attend church regularly, pray consistently, or give ourselves in leadership roles.  The existence of this kind of danger simply isn’t a valid argument against the practice, except where a particular individual knows they are weak in this area.
Bob

(Luke 2:37) Anna never left the temple, serving night and day with fastings and prayers. 

(Matthew 4:2) And after Jesus had fasted forty days and forty nights, he then became hungry. 

(Matthew 6:5-15 is on prayer then 6:16-18 on fasting) “Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.  But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. 

(Matthew 9:14-15) Then the disciples of John came to Him, asking, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?” And Jesus said to them, “The attendants of the bridegroom cannot mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. 

(Acts 13:2-3) While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 

(Acts 14:23) When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

(Matthew 9:14-15) Then the disciples of John came to Him, asking, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?” And Jesus said to them, “The attendants of the bridegroom cannot mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.

Thanks Adam for saving us some work with all those references!

I think this particular verse (to which others have already referred) is interesting, because it links fasting with mourning.  Those who suggest that the Groom is now with us are right - the mourning of the disciples to which Jesus alluded is surely the period of his arrest, trial, crucifixion and burial.  That mourning has now ended with his resurrection.  (It could be argued, however, that there is a sense in which we still await the presence [parousia] of Jesus with us.)

All of that begs the question, however, as to whether all fasting is associated with mourning, and therefore, whether Jesus was saying that any kind of fastiing is inappropriate now that he is with us, or whether some purposes for fasting still would have validity in the overlap of the ages. 

Bob

Neil Foster - 10 April 2008 03:47 PM

Again, these people were no doubt going overboard. But there is a tendency in the human heart to think that by denying ourselves stuff we somehow please God. So I would be reluctant to see fasting as a suggested spiritual exercise.

I think we can please God.  It is good to please God.  And one small way is in our eating or fasting for him - if it is for him.  God is so kind to us that he is pleased when we do things for him.  Why do so many people want defend against Christ saved, born-again people pleasing God?

But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. (Matthew 6:17-18)

Heb. 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

As to the issue about the bride groom

1. Jesus teaches his disciples how to fast (Matt 6) but they to are not yet to put this into practice because ...

2. He teaches them that they are not to fast in present time while the bridegroom is with them(Matt 9)

3. He teaches his disciples that the bride-groom will return at an hour not known (Matthew 25) This implies the bride-groom will be taken away and will return (second coming).  We now live waiting for the bride-groom.

4. Jesus says, at the end of Matthew (Matthew 28), that the disciples are to teach all future disciples Jesus’ teaching (presumably including fasting)

5. The disciples are never recorded as fasting during the ministry of Jesus on earth, but they are recorded as fasting in the life of the early church.

6. Besides all the references in Acts, the NIV obscures a couple references to fasting in Paul. (2 Cor 6:5; 11:27)

… but in everything commending ourselves, as ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, in stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in watchings, in fastings; in pureness, in knowledge, in long suffering, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in love unfeigned, in the word of truth, in the power of God; by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, by glory and dishonor, by evil report and good report; as deceivers, and yet true; 2 Cor 6:4-8 (ASV)

Therefore I think the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 6 can very well be applied to the present time.  ... that being said ... I don’t think fasting is a big deal ... but it is something we can do for God’s sake.