I thought the woman in Deuteronomy was defiled because of the “indecency” (sexual immorality?) which the husband originally found in her.

Grant,

Thanks for the link.

Craig S

I thought the woman in Deuteronomy was defiled because of the “indecency” (sexual immorality?) which the husband originally found in her.

In this case it can’t have been a case of sexual immorality, as it was punishable by death by stoning. I think the key to understanding this is passage comes from this verse.

if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her

Could this mean that the husband is no longer having sex with his wife, and is favoring other wives instead? Maybe he has grown tired of her ways? It seems to me that the husband has abandoned his wife in being intimate with her within all that means in a relational sense.

This question of interpreting scripture as a set of rules or a cookbook to live by has come up many times. We have Holy people to interpret scripture for an individual case, as we have judges to interpret law for an individual case. I think that the ordinary man should look to scripture for messages and as a guide to following Jesus. ‘
There is no doubt that the Bible says divorce is not God’s wishes---it is not the chosen path that we should follow. Some posters seem to assume that divorce is an option to obtain more sex or money or whatever.My experience is that divorce (i’ve had one divorce) is a matter of survival in this difficult era of changing human relations.
From that point of veiw, isn’t legal klling by an army a matter of survival?  “ Thou shall not murder is certainly in the Bible as a commandment.Many posters have also called accepting divorcee’s as non-sinful is the beginning of the “slippery slope”.  They should be aware that the “slippery slope “ works both ways. Trying to make society live by rigid rules could end up with the rebirth of the Nazi Hittler as the misunderstood messiah. So I think divorcee’s should not be discriminated against in most matters.Perhaps, just to make them dfferent, they should not be allowed to teach Sunday School.

Doug Leverett, you said:

My experience is that divorce (i’ve had one divorce) is a matter of survival in this difficult era of changing human relations.
From that point of veiw, isn’t legal klling by an army a matter of survival?  “ Thou shall not murder is certainly in the Bible as a commandment.Many posters have also called accepting divorcee’s as non-sinful is the beginning of the “slippery slope”.  They should be aware that the “slippery slope “ works both ways. Trying to make society live by rigid rules could end up with the rebirth of the Nazi Hittler as the misunderstood messiah. So I think divorcee’s should not be discriminated against in most matters.Perhaps, just to make them dfferent, they should not be allowed to teach Sunday School.

I agree, Doug. I also divorced. About 22 year ago. Havn’t re-married. Havn’t dismissed the thought either.

People in church look at you differently. Especially if you have children that you bring to church, like I did. I can’t say people treated me badly, quite the opposite, I did feel loved. But I don’t think most of the people at church, in those days, felt at ease with my situation in life. (not a situation I really wanted to be in, divorced that is.) People may have been suspicious of me, I think, though I did have some behaviour patterns that needed Christianising.

But what do you do when you cannot have a happy marriage with someone who is unreasonable, and difficult to live with? And who wants other men.

I think people change when they marry. They change again when they have children. And, they change to a different place when they divorce. (especially if they have children from the marriage.) A single woman looks at a divorced man with children, and thinks - no way. No way from my point of view also, back then.

Divorce without children is much different, and remarriage is less difficult.

Thats my two bobs worth.

Have a happy Christmas everyone.

Interesting discussion.

So now we think we know in what circumstances it might be acceptable to divorce for Christians and when it is not.

Could I now stear the conversation in a new direction.

Would anyone like to help answer Ray’s question behind the question?

In posting this topic I am guessing that Ray would like some helpful advice about how one goes about preparing themselves to date a nice Christian lady who just may already have children.

So if you have been in this situation ..... what helpful advice would you give a single gentleman embarking on such a relationship? What things should they look out for. What approach should he take so that he might have some chance of success in making this new relationship work?

Or even .... just maybe .... there are some Christian women who have married divorced/separated men .....who also just happened to have kids. How does one date with children in the picture?

Heather :)

Some tips for dating a divorced person with kids. Lots of generalisations here:-
-Don’t try to replace the ex-spouse’s role as father or mother or even appear to be potentially better than them in that role.
-Try to avoid getting involved in your friend’s divorce/custody/child support disputes etc. Let others advise them. if you do get involved, be a voice of reason, not just a yes person.
-Understand your friend’s need to cancel and rearrange dates at the last minute because of the kids.
-Allow them to leave the moblie phone on at all times.
-Encourage your friend to put the kids first, because they need to do that but will feel guilty not putting you first. This will change though if marriage occurs.
-As with any situation get to know your friend and their family well before committing yourself.
-Ensure that they have dealt with the prior relationship. Have several years passed? Is reconciliation impossible?
-Ask for permission to speak to your friend’s pastor. A good pastor should be onto you first though.

I am sure others can add to this list. I would guess that marrying a divorced person can have lots of positives. They are often better persons for having gone through the experience. They will hopefully be more mature, less proud, more practical, perhaps a few scars but hopefully stronger in their faith

Heather asked

In posting this topic I am guessing that Ray would like some helpful advice about how one goes about preparing themselves to date a nice Christian lady who just may already have children.

some of the things I would ask myself would be,

1) Am I am ready for father hood?
2.) Am I prepared to be a stepfather only and never have children of my own? Some women may not want to have or are not able to have more children for various reasons
3.) Am I prepared to be questioned by my friends, family, church etc regarding my motives for dating a divorced person? As already mentioned there is controversy within the church about divorce in general
4.) Am I prepared to accept and work through difficulties with the children telling me your not their dad, and the stresses it puts on their mum towards you?
5.) What reaction will I get with her family - and am I ready to work through it.Some families / parents get very protective of their sister / daughter after picking up the pieces from a failed relationship
6.) What are my true motivations for dating this woman? Is it because she is vulnerable and is on the rebound thus being an easy mark? Do I feel pity for her? Do I like her for herself? Am I really after a mother figure?
7.) Am I a possessive person? Jealous? Likes a lot of own space? Do I handle conflict easily?  A single mum has a lot of work to do in regards to running the household - most cases she is trying to be both mum and dad and the kids come first and most likely you would come second in her list of priorities
8.) What skills / experience do I have with children Do I find it easy being around children? Do they bug me? Do children normally like me? etc

What things should they look out for. What approach should he take so that he might have some chance of success in making this new relationship work?

Honesty is the biggest issue in making things work, honesty with self and with others.
Being prepared to take things easy and slow.
Be helpful in the areas she needs help.
Be thoughtful of her time, energies, priorities. Going out to the club, movie, party of a night time may not be the best option for a date - whereas a mid day coffee at the local shop may be a better option - this depends on the age of kids, are they at school, still in nappies - what energy levels does your potential date have? Is she run off her feet / how does she re-energize

These are just a few questions I would be asking myself first and then after that if I thought I passed them all, I would work through establishing a relationship.

P.S I would also be extremely wary of any one who would be overly eager in putting you first over their kids in establishing a relationship as there could be some security issues needing sorting out first.

Heather Smith - 18 December 2007 07:51 PM

Would anyone like to help answer Ray’s question behind the question?

In posting this topic I am guessing that Ray would like some helpful advice about how one goes about preparing themselves to date a nice Christian lady who just may already have children.

So if you have been in this situation ..... what helpful advice would you give a single gentleman embarking on such a relationship?

I posted this post because none of churches will talk about this topic. And I knew some of you have experience in this filed.

I’m glad some people put the life experience on.

Without reference to what has already been said (don’t feel well enough to read all posts carefully then respond to the ideas therein):

When I was eleven, father let mother know he had been having an affair with another woman. This other woman had just given birth to his son.

Father wanted to maintain both relationships, the new one as well as his marriage with my mother.

Mother enforced separation, knowing that if she agreed to his terms, she would lose dignity and respect in her own eyes - and in the eyes of her three girls.

For 14 years, mother remained with her girls (incl. me), while father lived overseas with his new son and other woman.

My mother’s marriage was effectively over, with no hope of reconciliation, because there was no way she would live with my father as a second wife.

Should she have done? Should she have sought reconciliation? Should she have attempted to fix the marriage up?

In 14th year, mother decided she wanted to remarry (the result is now my well-meaning stepfather), and got my father to sign divorce papers.

Did she sin?

By choosing to end the marriage
- unofficially when I was 11, then officially when I was 25 - on grounds of father’s adulterous behaviour resulting in my illegitimate half brother (mind you, bless the poor kid, he’s nearly 18 now and ready to start university already) -
was my mother sinning?

By desiring remarriage, was she sinning?

Do you think there was any possibility of reconciliation, and if so, ought she to be condemned for her choice to remarry?

Take great care in how you respond.

TZ.

Craig and Amanda - I don’t know you guys, but I just wanted to say there’s some great advice in your posts.

Considerations on Divorce Re-Marriage an excellent reference booklet for your personal library

Divorce, Re-marriage, Adultery ? (4.81MB .pdf file)

This brillant short book is allegedly written by Barrister and Ecclesiastical Lawyer Edward Badeley QC (UK) in 1857

Free download at www.WiseReaction.org

In the OT a member of the priestly house was not allowed to marry a divorced person....that is a type of the NT ( which is more glorious) where no Christian, a priestly person is allowed to marry a divorced person.