you get what you pay for.

Tom Barrett - 20 August 2007 01:07 PM

I think those who support themselves by playing music are reluctant to commit themselves to playing a free gig every Sunday night and potentially having to turn down paid gigs as a result. 

Hi Tom,

Are you saying these guys are playing Sunday night gigs rather than going to church?

Jeff

If some of the pro/semi-pro guys were willing to take on leadership roles I think this would be awesome.

I think they are often reluctant because they feel artistic integrity is going to be continually compromised, and they’ve also worried by a prevailing culture of mediocrity in Anglican music.

The best thing a pastor can do is to empower his music director. The pastor should say “This is your ministry area, you make the decisions. I will support and assist you however you require.”

Jeff Atack - 20 August 2007 01:41 PM

Tom Barrett - 20 August 2007 01:07 PM

I think those who support themselves by playing music are reluctant to commit themselves to playing a free gig every Sunday night and potentially having to turn down paid gigs as a result. 

Hi Tom,

Are you saying these guys are playing Sunday night gigs rather than going to church?

Jeff

I’m not thinking of particular examples, but I’d say that is sometimes the case yes.  Maybe they go to another service when work prevents them from attending their usual one.

What is with this stuff about pro musicians not playing inn church? I am semi professional musician who plays at my church. I actually don’t know of one professional Christian musician who doesn’t play in their church unless they have just moved to the church or they have only recently become a Christian.

The problem with a lot of our discussion about church music is people make sweeping generalizations about what musicians think/do and while sometimes it is true a lot of the time it is so far off it is not funny, the present case being an example.

So can we let the pro musicians like David and others say what pro musicians do and don’t do and so further this conversation well instead of basing it on caricatures and straw men.

I am not a pro muso - I can use a computer. That is only half a joke, if you know what I mean.

So can we let the pro musicians like David and others say what pro musicians do and don’t do and so further this conversation well instead of basing it on caricatures and straw men.

Hans, you are entitled to your opinion. My experience has been different to yours.

Anyone may contribute to this thread, whether they are a “pro-muso” or not…

actually I shouldn’t be so flippant. If any pro musos read these forums they are probably reticent to contribute at the risk of being branded elitist - but since I am not one of their breed (though I am weekend hacker level on piano and drums, not at the same time)…

I can assure Hans and others that for a pro muso to play at church is NO DIFFERENT to asking to asking the accountant in your congregation to give free financial planning over morning tea after the Sunday service, NO DIFFERENT to asking the plumber in your congregation to look at the leaky washer in the church kitchen after Sunday evening service - get what I mean?

David Maegraith - 20 August 2007 03:25 PM

actually I shouldn’t be so flippant. If any pro musos read these forums they are probably reticent to contribute at the risk of being branded elitist - but since I am not one of their breed (though I am weekend hacker level on piano and drums, not at the same time)…

I can assure Hans and others that for a pro muso to play at church is NO DIFFERENT to asking to asking the accountant in your congregation to give free financial planning over morning tea after the Sunday service, NO DIFFERENT to asking the plumber in your congregation to look at the leaky washer in the church kitchen after Sunday evening service - get what I mean?

I’m not quite sure what you mean...is it that asking anyone to contribute using their skills is extracting a freebie from them?

well I’m trying to get us all to think wider than the current SA thinking, which is pay the preacher/s and everyone else does it for free.

I don’t think the money is generally an issue. People use what skills they have. Our treasurer is a financial guru in a top accounting firm, for example.

What wouldn’t be acceptable would be to ask said financial guru to handle the accounts, but insist he use a clumsy system devised by the pastor. You have to give him the freedom to do it right. Everyone will be better off.

It’s the same with music…

David Maegraith - 20 August 2007 03:43 PM

well I’m trying to get us all to think wider than the current SA thinking, which is pay the preacher/s and everyone else does it for free.

Is that SA thinking or biblical thinking (not saying the two are always synonymous).

Is there any biblical basis for paying anyone else besides those “labouring in preaching and teaching”?

Surely someone who plays 5 songs once a fortnight cannot be expect to be paid for that, regardless of how good they are?

cf. 2 Chronicles 5:11-14 [reproduced in earlier post]

The temple musicians were Levites, were of the priestly caste, were paid.

Fast forward to today - how does that apply?

David Maegraith - 20 August 2007 03:58 PM

cf. 2 Chronicles 5:11-14 [reproduced in earlier post]

The temple musicians were Levites, were of the priestly caste, were paid.

Fast forward to today - how does that apply?

My understanding is that this was their job, so they were paid to do their job (just like the pastor/preacher/teacher is paid to do his).

I wouldn’t have thought we could apply this to our current times to say any muso who a strikes a note in the church should be fiscally compensated?

The bible also talks about temple servants and gatekeepers...maybe we should pay the guys handing out the weekly news at the church door!! Sign me up for that!!

Craig Schwarze - 20 August 2007 03:45 PM

I don’t think the money is generally an issue. People use what skills they have. Our treasurer is a financial guru in a top accounting firm, for example.

What wouldn’t be acceptable would be to ask said financial guru to handle the accounts, but insist he use a clumsy system devised by the pastor. You have to give him the freedom to do it right. Everyone will be better off.

It’s the same with music…

Absolutely.  But the top accountant can generally function as the church treasurer by putting in say a couple of hours a week on the weekend or at night - they’re giving up their free time rather than part of their work and income.  The comparison with a plumber is slightly better since plumbers are often self-employed like musicians, but you’re not asking them to fix the taps at the expense of taking another client.

The band coach strategy has the real advantage of time flexibility - you can arrange it for when the pro muso doesn’t have other work on.

Hans:  I can think of at least one pro muso who doesn’t play at their church.  I’m not sure of exactly which reasons apply in this person’s case.