I don’t believe my post said anything about Protestants! However, as with all things Roman Catholic, it’s never that simple. If a Protestant holds to Protestant teaching as anathematized by the Roman Catholic Church, then they are definitely not Roman Catholics.
I believe that “anathema” as it was used at the Council of Trent certainly refers to a sense of separation, but I am led to believe that “anathema” was understood as a less serious form of excommunication. To anathematize someone was to deny them the sacraments, but it didn’t deny that there was an intrinsic connection with the Catholic Church through baptism. As it applies to Protestants, there is an understanding that Protestants are denied the sacraments given to those in full communion, but nonetheless retain a certain degree of Catholicity about them.
I believe that “anathema” as it was used at the Council of Trent certainly refers to a sense of separation, but I am led to believe that “anathema” was understood as a less serious form of excommunication.
The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1907, states on the subject:
In the New Testament anathema no longer entails death, but the loss of goods or exclusion from the society of the faithful. St. Paul frequently uses this word in the latter sense. In the Epistle to the Romans (ix, 3) he says: “For I wished myself to be an anathema from Christ, for my brethren, who are my kinsmen according to the flesh”, i.e. “I should wish to be separated and rejected of Christ, if by that means I would procure the salvation of my brethren.” And again, using the word in the same sense, he says (Gal. i, 9): “If any one preach to you a gospel besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.” But he who is separated from God is united to the devil, which explains why St. Paul, instead of anathematizing, sometimes delivers a person over to Satan (I Tim., i, 20; I Cor., v, 5). Anathema signifies also to be overwhelmed with maledictions, as in I Cor., xvi, 22: “If any man love not our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.” At an early date the Church adopted the word anathema to signify the exclusion of a sinner from the society of the faithful; but the anathema was pronounced chiefly against heretics. All the councils, from the Council of Nicaea to that of the Vatican, have worded their dogmatic canons: “If any one says . . . let him be anathema”. Nevertheless, although during the first centuries the anathema did not seem to differ from the sentence of excommunication, beginning with the sixth century a distinction was made between the two. [italics mine]
The next question would be how authoritative the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia is, on this question. And, did the Council of Trent observe the distinction that the CE speaks of, or did it follow the usage of the council of Nicea?
Yes! The “eucharistic mystery” is at front and centre for the Roman Catholic church.
If you deny that the body and blood of Jesus are literally present in the Roman mass, and that the priest’s sacrifice is part of the offering of Christ on the cross, then you are in deep doo-doo, anathema-wise.
Sorry everyone I was away from the net for a few weeks
Doug Leverett - 02 July 2007 12:20 AM
G’day Steve,
The WYD 2008 will indeed be a magnificent occasion and spectacle for Christians to show the strength and fervour of their faith. But I shall not be there. Just think what my fellow church goers would say if I was seen there.
Fair enough
Melinda Seed - 02 July 2007 11:27 PM
Hi Stephen,
I am really excited that our city is host to such a public proclamation of the Gospel. I pray that many Sydneysiders and visitors will experience the reality of God’s amazing grace as a result of this event.
Thanks for your support Melinda. Hopefully more people will realise during the event that there is more we agree on than disagree. If the Anglican church were holding a similar event I would attend, even if I didn’t participate in all of it. eg not receiving communion.
Derek Cheng - 10 July 2007 04:20 PM
A second thought which has probably been asked before in this thread:
What kind of Catholics are going to WYD? By that I’m guessing that it’s more likely to be your more-into-it types, rather than your maybe-attend-once-or-twice-a-year types. In that sense, they are more likely to actually know what they believe, and probably more willing to share that with us.
Thanks for the constructive comment. Yes I would expect that there will be a lot more serious catholics attending, especially the overseas pilgrims. Hopefully the local twice a year catholics will have an experience with Christ that will bring them back to the faith. Hopefully it will also give a better understanding to fellow christians about the catholic faith, including biblical reasons for RC beleifs.
On a similar note. Hopefully EP will better understand that the RC faith is not unbiblical just biblically interpereted differently.
Steve, if you’re still around, could you explain a little more about what WYD is about? I’m just curious, and never really understood.. young people, check, catholicism, check, *lots* of young catholics in one place, check… but beyond that I’m just not really sure what’s about?? Thanks!
I’ll do my best. I havent attended a WYD yet.
I suppose it was started by JPII to strengthin the faith of young Cathoilics and to evangelise those astray or ignorant to the gospel.
Its a celebration really. It could be liked to that of a christian conference on a large scale. people gathering to celebrate their catholic christian faith. Christians with catholics in particular are put under more and more pressure to conform to the norms of this world, particularly in areas of morallity. WYD is a chance for young catholics to realise that although they are in the minority in this society, they are part of something much larger.
The journey of the world youth day cross (icon aside to avoid argument) is like a gathering journey “come follow me”. The world youth day week will involve people gathering to share their faith through discussion, catechisis with bishops, prayer and meditation. as well as public displays of faith with the stations of the cross and mass.
The finale is the final mass celebrated by our spiritual leader on earth Pope Beni XVI. At this mass we will receive the Body and Blood of our saviour Jesus Christ, and though this commuion with Jesus we will be in physical and spiritual communion with Father, Son and Spirit, as well as being in communion with all people who have received communion thoughout time. And although this is the case for every mass it will certainly have a special feel attending mass with 100’s of thousands of others.
In anticipation of World Youth Day, our church has released a resource called “Ideas that Changed the World”, which examines the great truths of the Reformation.
We’ve put up the “Grace Alone” video for free viewing on our website. It is excellent! It opens with the testimony of several former Catholics about their understanding of grace as Catholics and then as Protestants. Even if you don’t have time to watch the whole thing, check this section out as it is fascinating.
In anticipation of World Youth Day, our church has released a resource called “Ideas that Changed the World”, which examines the great truths of the Reformation.
Hi Craig,
My church is using this...starting this week we are doing a four week message series titled “Sola Power” looking at four of the Sola’s of the reformation (Sola gratia - Grace alone, Sola fide - Grace alone, Sola scriptura - scripture alone, Solus Christus - Christ alone).
All our small groups will be going through Dominic’s study series in conjunction.
My church is using this...starting this week we are doing a four week message series titled “Sola Power” looking at four of the Sola’s of the reformation (Sola gratia - Grace alone, Sola fide - Grace alone, Sola scriptura - scripture alone, Solus Christus - Christ alone).
Cheers
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I like your church’s series title of “Sola Power”.
You obviously had an accidental typo for sola fide as it should refer to faith not grace.
Please also be aware that sola fide means by faith alone.
Translating sola fide as “faith alone” is simply incorrect.
If you are trying to discuss Protestant distinctives with an older, educated RC person it won’t help your credibility if your Latin translation is just wrong. 8-)
My church is using this...starting this week we are doing a four week message series titled “Sola Power” looking at four of the Sola’s of the reformation (Sola gratia - Grace alone, Sola fide - Grace alone, Sola scriptura - scripture alone, Solus Christus - Christ alone).
Cheers
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I like your church’s series title of “Sola Power”.
You obviously had an accidental typo for sola fide as it should refer to faith not grace.
Please also be aware that sola fide means by faith alone.
Translating sola fide as “faith alone” is simply incorrect.
If you are trying to discuss Protestant distinctives with an older, educated RC person it won’t help your credibility if your Latin translation is just wrong. 8-)
Nice one Craig. A well produced and edited video - and under 3 minutes too. How many guys/gals were involved in this tape ? Have you done many others before ? Makes the book look enticing. Congratulations to all.
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