Hi Joshua,
I hope Kevin won’t mind if I say that I don’t think it was his best effort.
Yours in Christ,
Terry

Terry wrote :

Kevin is one of the resident “humourists” here, so I suspect his post was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek, while still making the valid point that the presentation of Jude’s posts make them harder and more time-consuming to read and comprehend.

Terry Gallagher - 18 July 2008 07:14 PM

Hi Joshua,
I hope Kevin won’t mind if I say that I don’t think it was his best effort.
Yours in Christ,
Terry

Thanks Terry - I will agree with you on that point. Perhaps staying up late to watch the fabulous cycling on the Tour de France has dulled my sensitivities - ( BTW - go Cadel Evans ! We also simply adore seeing the French countryside - along with all those historical chateaux. )

And hi to Jude and Joshua,

Please accept my apologies if my sloppy attempt to make a point with humour came across in a bad way. I have come to realise that I am not infallible.

Cheers, Kevin

Kevin Goddard - 18 July 2008 07:39 PM

I have come to realise that I am not infallible.

You’re in good company . . . :-)

Hi guys,

Just watched the gathering of other faith and religions leaders going to see the Pope.  Interesting mix, there was Bishop Forsyth, Brian Houston and even my old Armenian Archbishop Aghan Baliozian.

How wonderful that Bishop Forsyth is going.... there is definitely a change in the hearts of some Sydney Anglicans..

How wonderful that Bishop Forsyth is going.... there is definitely a change in the hearts of some Sydney Anglicans..

Hi Robert

The link here to Rob Forsyth’s speech is supposedly the full text, but in the print version of the paper there is more, including a comment that the pope is a Christian leader, but not the leader of the world’s Christians.

i have responded to your questions, just not with more bible quotes.the bible does not mention the word ‘bible’ let alone say that it itself is to be the source of authority. uncomfortable reading for protestants but true! as st augustine said in the 5th century ‘ i would not believe in the gospel had not the authority of the catholic church compelled me” i can google supportive bible passages for catholic beleifs then you can counter with protestant supporting ones on and on back and forth for ever! anyone can read any meaning into scripure and since luther have done so, thus as against the unified catholic church we have a multiplicity of protestant churcheswith thousands of different ideas on what the bible teaches us

thanks again who have welcomed my posts without neccisarily agreeing with me (i dont mind a few jokes at my expense!). here is what the church has to say on the matter
Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline."32

In the apostolic preaching. . .

76 In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

- orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”;33

- in writing “by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing”.34

. . . continued in apostolic succession

77 “In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority."35 Indeed, “the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time."36

78 This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition, since it is distinct from Sacred Scripture, though closely connected to it. Through Tradition, “the Church, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes."37 “The sayings of the holy Fathers are a witness to the life-giving presence of this Tradition, showing how its riches are poured out in the practice and life of the Church, in her belief and her prayer."38

79 The Father’s self-communication made through his Word in the Holy Spirit, remains present and active in the Church: “God, who spoke in the past, continues to converse with the Spouse of his beloved Son. And the Holy Spirit, through whom the living voice of the Gospel rings out in the Church - and through her in the world - leads believers to the full truth, and makes the Word of Christ dwell in them in all its richness."39

III. THE INTERPRETATION OF THE HERITAGE OF FAITH

The heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church

84 The apostles entrusted the “Sacred deposit” of the faith (the depositum fidei),45 contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church. “By adhering to [this heritage] the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful."46

The Magisterium of the Church

85 “The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48

87 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”,49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.

...continued (sorry about the length)
The dogmas of the faith

88 The Church’s Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these.

89 There is an organic connection between our spiritual life and the dogmas. Dogmas are lights along the path of faith; they illuminate it and make it secure. Conversely, if our life is upright, our intellect and heart will be open to welcome the light shed by the dogmas of faith.50

90 The mutual connections between dogmas, and their coherence, can be found in the whole of the Revelation of the mystery of Christ.51 “In Catholic doctrine there exists an order or hierarchy of truths, since they vary in their relation to the foundation of the Christian faith."52

The supernatural sense of faith

91 All the faithful share in understanding and handing on revealed truth. They have received the anointing of the Holy Spirit, who instructs them53 and guides them into all truth.54

92 “The whole body of the faithful. . . cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of faith (sensus fidei) on the part of the whole people, when, from the bishops to the last of the faithful, they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals."55

93 “By this appreciation of the faith, aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth, the People of God, guided by the sacred teaching authority (Magisterium),. . . receives. . . the faith, once for all delivered to the saints. . . The People unfailingly adheres to this faith, penetrates it more deeply with right judgment, and applies it more fully in daily life."56

Growth in understanding the faith

94 Thanks to the assistance of the Holy Spirit, the understanding of both the realities and the words of the heritage of faith is able to grow in the life of the Church:

- “through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts”;57 it is in particular “theological research [which] deepens knowledge of revealed truth”.58

- “from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which [believers] experience”,59 the sacred Scriptures “grow with the one who reads them."60

- “from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth”.61

95 “It is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the salvation of souls."62

IN BRIEF

96 What Christ entrusted to the apostles, they in turn handed on by their preaching and writing, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to all generations, until Christ returns in glory.

97 “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God” (DV 10) in which, as in a mirror, the pilgrim Church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.

98 “The Church, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes” (DV 8 § 1).

99 Thanks to its supernatural sense of faith, the People of God as a whole never ceases to welcome, to penetrate more deeply and to live more fully from the gift of divine Revelation.

100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.

one last thing, sorry about my spelling and use of capitals.. thats 13 years of catholic education for you!!

Hi all,
Can I be a pain and add a post regarding assurance of salvation.  I prefer to take Paul’s position.  “So dear friends, as you always obeyed me when I was with you, it is even more important that you obey me now while I am away from you.  Keep on working with fear and trembling to complete your salvation”. Phil2:12

How wonderful to see the proclamation of “Christ crucified” on the front page of every Sydney paper this morning.  Good news indeed.

Thanks for the link David...but it is an improvement ..in the TC Hammond days they would have denounced the Pope of Rome unequivocally!

Hi Donna
Concerning assurance, I’ve been listening to Tom Schreiner’s talks at Oak Hill College based on the book he cowrote with Ardel Caneday The Race Set Before Us. Schreiner points out that some Christians emphasise the promises passages, but ignore the warnings ones.

Schreiner believes we can have complete confidence in our salvation now, but that it is essential to keep on the path, unlike some who teach that it is not necessary for Christians to persevere to obtain final salvation.

He talks about being told as a young Christian that having believed in Christ, he is now secure and can put his feet up and everything will still be OK. but then he read what the apostles said to new Christians. Over and over, they warned them to continue in the grace of God, to keep on the path, as in the NT book I have been living in for the past 2 years, the Letter to the Hebrews.

Its just strange with the gathering of the leaders of other faiths and religions to express love and unity before the Pope.  Once this is done, they will only go back to their groups and bash about each other.  Is there love and unity in that - I don’t think so.