Hi Admins,

thanks for the work on the website.

I’m opening this topic here because I thought it was a better location for the discussion than actually within “Dead Horses”

On that other thread, James Robertson asked why we couldn’t keep Dead Horse threads open.

I said:

I’m with James on this.

If the topic is locked once it moves to Dead Horses, then a new and strangely identical topic will simply get opened in General Discussion—thus rehashing the same ground the Dead Horse topic was covering (generating annoyance amongst the general population); or necessitating further adminly work for the exact same reason(s) that necessitated the creation of the Dead Horse in the first place.

I say keep the sucker open. That way, when the rehash rears its ugly head in a place where it ought not be, the administrator simply picks up this diseased new mutant thread and glues it on to the Dead Horse that already exists. Discussion keeps rolling along in a non-distracting arena, everybody happy.

So for example, there is a thread currently in “General Discussions” entitled ABC “Crude”: It’s the end of oil which could IMHO profitably be glued onto a re-opened Dead Horse by the name of “Peak Oil”.

If you did this, the result would be a “General Discussion” forum freed from the spectre of “Peak Oil”. Meanwhile those who wished to continue discussions on the subject could do so to their heart’s content in the appropriate place, without the fear of having their feelings hurt by evil interjectors ;-)

Bit pompous quoting myself I know. However I wonder if the wise SAhibs might give this a bit more thought.

Thanks!

At the very least they should rename that section of the forums.

A dead horse is something you are supposed to keep flogging.
At present the section is more of an elephants graveyard, where old threads go to die.
;-)

Mark said :

A dead horse is something you are supposed to keep flogging.

I believe the actual saying is something like “There’s no use in flogging a dead horse” - which has the opposite meaning.

Cheers, Kevin

kevin goddard - 30 May 2007 11:23 AM

Mark said :

A dead horse is something you are supposed to keep flogging.

I believe the actual saying is something like “There’s no use in flogging a dead horse” - which has the opposite meaning.

Cheers, Kevin

True. But in the context of this discussion, the thread ought to continue to remain open, since if it was closed there would be no possibility whatsoever of flogging the dead horse, thus rendering any discussion of flogging it moot. The forum title would then be meaningless. The stable door would have been closed after the dead horse had bolted. The dead horse would therefore be honoured in the breach, rather than the observance.

HTH.

Hmmm
Gordo, should we remain saddled with a dead horse?

Owen Atkins - 31 May 2007 02:54 PM

Hmmm
Gordo, should we remain saddled with a dead horse?

That question is indeed the dead cat under the table that dare not speak its name.

There is no room under a table to swing a dead cat.

This thread requires a greater knowledge of aphorisms than I can boast…

But I thought it would be helpful to provide a link to our discussion of comments relating to the Dead Horse forum and another to the current Dead Horse spotter’s guide that we’ve been working out.

In summary, it explains that we have seen these dead horses falter because we can’t make them think.

*winces at his own abuse of the English language*

Mark Hadley - 31 May 2007 05:13 PM

In summary, it explains that we have seen these dead horses falter because we can’t make them think.

Yes indeedy… you are right to suggest that you can plead a Dead Horse to falter, but you cannot make it think.  But at least by locking the threads, you have managed to put the “can’t!” before the horse.

I admit defeat in this

In fact, I will go so far as to admit de entire leg!

* Mark pondered the latest post by Owen and realised that as far as verbiage was concerned, he was batting way out of his league. To think otherwise would be to place himself in the same position as an Egyptian on a hot day - in de Nile *

I am wondering if the current ‘creation versus evolution’ thread could be shifted to Dead Horses—and kept open.

I may have misunderstood, but I thought that this was precisely the purpose for which Dead Horses was opened.

Hi Gordon,

Actually, no, the purpose for creating the DH forum was to close off threads that were behaving in such a way that they have were either excluding participation or drifting so far from their initial topic that they are becoming unrelated or unreadable. You’ll find our current policy here.

To date it appears that there are a number of people participating in a intense but respectful conversation. The posts are short and the topic is very much that addressed in the article that spawned this thread. I am watching this thread closely since this topic has sometimes resulted in disrespectful behaviour in the past, though so far there has only been the need to make one edit and issue one warning. To be honest, the Hillsong Fundraising thread caused me much greater grief.

In passing, I note that I have received only one complaint regarding the thread and I thought that I should address the concern publicly so that everyone would be aware of my position. The specific concern was that this thread would unfairly ‘dominate’ the forums. To be honest, I’m not sure how this is possible unless it should spread to multiple threads. It is presently just one active thread (not the most active I note) that appears amongst the top 10 or so most active threads in ‘latest discussions’. No-one is being forced to participate; on the contrary the multiple people contributing seem to be quite interested in what is being said.

Everyone should note that the DH forum still appears in the ‘latest discussions’ box on many of our pages. Moving this thread to the DH forum at this stage, but leaving it open, would only amount to a value judgment about the topic which I am not prepared to make. If it does move to this forum then it will be because of unacceptable behaviour or its unwieldy nature and not because I or other forum members feel they have heard it all before.

Ta Mark!

When the new format was established, I thought it was great that a ‘Dead Horses’ section was created, so that issues such as - ‘Evolution versus Creation’ - could be corralled in order that they did not dominate the General Discussion forum as they have in the past; yet people would still have the opportunity to express their point of view.

I did not realise that the threads would immediately be closed.

Whatever the intention; the effect has been to stifle all debate on such issues - and has lessened both the variety and level of participation on these forums

And meanwhile ‘Dead Horses’ just sits there… ‘dead’ in every sense of the word - acting only as a warning to anyone wishing to start a discussion on a contentious issue.

Since a new thread on ‘Evolution’ has just started, I thought it an appropriate time to raise this concern.

Whilst I value my membership here, I must say that in some respects I have found it less stimulating since the new policy has been implemented.

What would be wrong with having dynamic discussions in DH around issues about which people feel passionately?

I would appreciate comments from everyone here, including the moderators.

Rob

Rob Callander - 13 October 2007 04:25 PM

Whilst I value my membership here

Before I comment on the issue you’ve raised, let me say I also (greatly) value your membership here. One of the dangers of a forum such as this is that it’s potentially dominated by one particular theological perspective to the point that presumptions are uncritically accepted as truths. If what we believe is of an real value it needs to be tested and refined (and sometimes discarded when it proves unsound) and so we need to listen carefully to those with whom we disagree. So, I look forward to a few more “token atheists” joining in and perhaps a few Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and Pente’s too.

What would be wrong with having dynamic discussions in DH around issues about which people feel passionately?

I’m sure the last thing the DH forum was designed to do was to stifle debate, so if that’s an unintended consequence then I’m sure it will be reassessed. In most other forums, when ‘dead horse’ discussions occur (ie those that end up running around in circles achieving very little), they’re simply closed by a moderator. The implicit message conveyed to those still wielding a metaphorical ‘whip’ is to chill out for a while. I’m not sure why this isn’t the best way to deal with ‘dead horse’ threads here.