To the angel of the church in Sydney…
13 October 2008 12:53am
5474 posts
  [ Ignore ]

Heard a great sermon on Revelation 2 tonight. The message to the church at Ephesus stuck with me -

I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name’s sake, and you have not grown weary.

It struck me that this sounds like a lot of our Anglican churches here in Sydney. Hardworking, patient, morally upright, rejecting false doctrine, steady and solid. A good church.

But Christ’s next words are astonishing -

But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Despite all their hard work, Christ accuses them of not loving Him as they did at first, and He threatens to “remove their lampstand” - threatens to reject them completely.

If the first half applies to our churches, is it possible that the second half does as well? Have we lost our first love? Are we in danger of severe judgment? Do we need to repent?

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13 October 2008 1:00am
179 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]

Hi Craig, what do you think the “first love” that would have been abandoned, looked like (or looks like) for a Sydney Anglican Church.  ? 
Gill

   
13 October 2008 8:25am
5474 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]

I’m not entirely sure about what the Ephesians “first love” looked like. It appears to be something separate from hard work, endurance, and the rejection of evil and bad doctrine.

So what was it..?

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13 October 2008 10:08am
1113 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]

Hey Craig,
As one of the ministers in this Diocese, let me reassure you that I haven’t lost my first love of the Lord, nor have the ministers around me in this part of the diocese.

Sadly the Ephesian church, who had the apostle Paul for several years, as well as many other greats, was one of the first churches to be wiped out… its lampstand was taken away.

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A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.  John 13:34

   
13 October 2008 10:10am
5474 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]

As one of the ministers in this Diocese, let me reassure you that I haven’t lost my first love of the Lord, nor have the ministers around me in this part of the diocese.

How do you know? What does it look like to lose your “first love” of the Lord?

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13 October 2008 10:51am
829 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Craig Schwarze - 13 October 2008 12:53 AM

If the first half applies to our churches, is it possible that the second half does as well? Have we lost our first love? Are we in danger of severe judgment? Do we need to repent?

Hi Craig. Great question! Perhaps another way to pose it is - are we (individually and collectively) more afraid than in love? (1 John 4:18). I suspect many of us do need to repent (of fearing change and accepting the status quo; of protecting reputations rather than challenging or disagreeing with power brokers; of protecting buildings and institutions rather than reaching and ministering to people; of materialism - just to name a few). However, we will only repent if we keep our vision on what new life in Jesus can really be here now and in new creation*. If we are loving then that love is infectious and evangelism won’t be programmes. Most of all we need to be encouraged to love one another - listening, forgiving, helping, sharing, changing, having hope and being ready to explain what that hope is, and praying.

*We need a healthy vision for what new creation will be. I suspect too often it’s imagined as simply the better alternative to “that other place”.

Edit: On the related topic of change, one of the best books I’ve read recently (lent to me by my pastor) is “Who Stole My Church” by Gordon MacDonald. (It’s a fictional account of how a pastor led revival in his church.)

   
13 October 2008 1:27pm
1113 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]

Craig,
If you try to legislate or quantify what a “first love” will look like, then you will have lost your first love.

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A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.  John 13:34

   
13 October 2008 1:31pm
5474 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Robert Denham - 13 October 2008 01:27 PM

Craig,
If you try to legislate or quantify what a “first love” will look like, then you will have lost your first love.

No-one is asking for legislation. What can we meaningfully say about the phrase? And how can someone know if they have lost their first love?

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14 October 2008 1:29pm
19 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]

I’m not entirely sure about what the Ephesians “first love” looked like. It appears to be something separate from hard work, endurance, and the rejection of evil and bad doctrine.

So what was it..?

Good question Craig.  Especially pertinent for a church which appears to fit so well into our Lord’s initial description of Ephesus.  Some ideas of what “first love” might look like:

1 Peter 1:8-9 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Romans 5:5-8 ...God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us....God demonstrates his own love for us in this:  While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Colossians 1:4-8 ...we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints - the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth...All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you...(Epraphas).. told us of your love in the Spirit

Some thoughts from these passages:
Being in touch with the joy of salvation, not complacent.
Not forgetting that Christ died for us while we were sinners and enemies of God. 
It’s God’s love that is poured into us by the Holy Spirit.
Bears fruit in love towards others and in the gospel.

I am encouraged that Archbishop Jensen exhorts us all to love as well as holding on to the truth. 

Just brainstorming.

   
14 October 2008 1:48pm
698 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]

General question:  Why do we assume that it is her love for Christ that the church in Ephesus had lost?  Is it not just as likely that it was their mutual love (cf Eph 1:15) that is in view?

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14 October 2008 1:51pm
829 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Bob Cameron - 14 October 2008 01:48 PM

General question:  Why do we assume that it is her love for Christ that the church in Ephesus had lost?  Is it not just as likely that it was their mutual love (cf Eph 1:15) that is in view?

Hi Bob. Can there be one without the other?

   
14 October 2008 1:51pm
1392 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]

I would guess that it’s because it’s the first love. Without love for Christ how can we truly love any other human?

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“Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.”

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14 October 2008 2:09pm
203 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]

It is interesting that we should be talking about mesages to the church at Ephesus,especially in relation to Paul’s relationship with it.  The letter we have that is addressed to The Church at Ephesus is regarded in many circles as being somewhat akin to a circular letter since some texts have a blank space where the word Ephesus is placed.

I would take these words as a general encouragement to us all to mind carefully our faith that it does not stray from the basics of our relationship with Jesus.  When Craig asks “what does our first faith look like?” I would like to make a suggestion as to what this question should not arrive at.  It is important and appropriate that we mature and grow in our faith and so I don’t think this question is asking us to go back to the naiive faith of our first calling.  But it could be a call back to the basics.

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14 October 2008 3:18pm
19 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]

Bob, Angus, Dannii,

I’m happy to agree that mutual love should also be in view here. 

John, you said

.  When Craig asks “what does our first faith look like?” I would like to make a suggestion as to what this question should not arrive at.  It is important and appropriate that we mature and grow in our faith

The question was about ‘first love’ rather than ‘first faith’.  Ephesus seemed to have their faith - or at least their doctrine - in order.  Also, while its true we should mature, consider Jesus’ estimate of their first love ‘remember the height from which you have fallen’ (Rev 2:5).

   
14 October 2008 3:18pm
829 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Dannii Willis - 14 October 2008 01:51 PM

Without love for Christ how can we truly love any other human?

We can, as evidenced by the many non-Christians who love genuinely (and often put Christians to shame). We can still love (as part of God’s general blessing of creation) without honouring God the Father or Jesus, but that love is limited without being replenished by the Spirit.