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Are we really pro-life? 
07 October 2008 9:25pm
1415 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]

From tonight’s late news :

Debate begins on abortion Bill
Article from: AAP

By Katie Bradford
October 07, 2008 07:47pm

VICTORIA’S proposed abortion legislation received support as it began its journey through the Upper House today.

Debate on the controversial Bill, which seeks to decriminalise abortions up to 24 weeks gestation, began late this afternoon in the Legislative Council, with MPs being allowed conscience votes.

After passing through the Lower House unamended last month, the Abortion Law Reform Bill was expected to receive a tough ride in the Upper House.

But of the first six speakers to air their views during today’s debate, only one was opposed, while a previously undecided MP, Nationals Peter Hall, said he would support the Bill.

Mr Hall believed if the Bill was defeated the status quo would remain.

“I want you all to understand if you vote against the Bill ... we will be no better off than the current situation implies,” Mr Hall told his fellow Upper House members.

He said he did not believe arguments that if the Bill passed, the number of abortions in Victoria would increase.

Under the legislation, two doctors would decide if an abortion was appropriate after 24 weeks based on the woman’s physical, psychological and social circumstances.

Greens MP Colleen Hartland, who had an abortion 27 years ago, said all three Green Upper House members supported the legislation.

In a moving speech, she spoke of the traumatic experiences women underwent when backyard abortions were still common, and dedicated her speech to all women who had died or were maimed during an abortion.

She said the decision to have an abortion after 24 weeks was “truly the exception and only done in exceptional circumstances”.

“It’s the most heartwrenching and heartbreaking decision, a pregnancy that starts with joy ... ended with heartbreak and grief.”

Her key argument was the decision to have a termination, at whatever stage of the pregnancy, should be a woman’s alone.

After Ms Hartland concluded her speech and Labor MP Candy Broad began hers in support of the Bill, a woman in the public gallery yelled abuse at Ms Broad and made an offensive gesture.

Liberals MP John Vogels spoke of his staunch opposition to the Bill.

He believed abortion destroyed a life and was a sign of a selfish society that women wanted to be able to abort a baby if it had a disability.

Earlier today, a group of doctors called on Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to stop the Bill from proceeding, saying it breached human rights and an international treaty.

Doctors in Conscience Against Abortion Bill said it has received legal advice that finds the Bill is in conflict with Victoria’s Charter of Rights and Responsibilities and the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).

The ICCPR is an international treaty to which Australia is a signatory.

Group spokeswoman Dr Mary Lewis said the Bill was unprecedented in the western world, imposing laws that forced doctors to act in violation of their conscientious beliefs.

“The Australian Government has an obligation to ensure Australia’s laws are consistent with the charter, and we call upon Mr Rudd to intervene with Victorian Premier John Brumby and insist that Victoria not proceed with this legislation,” Dr Lewis said.

One of the most contentious aspects of the Bill is that it says medical practitioners who have a moral objection to abortion must refer a woman on to another practitioner who doesn’t have the same objection.

Debate on the Bill in the Upper House is expected to continue for the rest of the week.

link

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
10 October 2008 1:12pm
1415 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]

Just announced ;

Abortion Bill passes upper house
Article from: Herald-Sun
By John Ferguson and Nick Higginbottom
October 10, 2008 11:31am

VICTORIAN MPs today voted to back new abortion laws making it almost certain the changes will now be passed by the state’s Parliament.

Upper House MPs voted 23 to 17 to back change after a marathon debate divided the Parliament, the Herald Sunreported.

Legislative Council president Bob Smith was forced to eject two protesters who screamed out after the vote.

Jack Fox, from Youth 4 Life, shouted at MPs who backed change: “Blood is on your hands”.

The vote on the Abortion Law Reform Bill was backed by Planning Minister Justin Madden and was considered a decisive victory.

Prominent opponents were Treasurer John Lenders and Major Projects Minister Theo Theophanous.

Up to 70 amendments to the Bill will now be debated with MPs unclear when the final package would be voted on.  This morning’s vote was on the second reading of the Bill.

It is crucial because it shows that a clear majority of MPs want to back the legislation.

If finally backed by the upper house, it will mean abortion will be decriminalised and women will be able to have an abortion up to 24 weeks without fear of retribution.  Abortions can be performed after 24 weeks with the appropriate medical consent.

Amendments due to be debated today include reducing the 24-week period for terminations to 20 weeks, banning partial birth abortions and not forcing medical practioners to refer patients to an abortionist if the medical practioners have a conscientious objection to terminations.

link

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
11 October 2008 12:27am
1415 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]

Just in 20 minutes ago :

Vote okays Victorian abortions
Article from: AAP
October 10, 2008 11:07pm

ABORTION in Victoria has been decriminalised with a third and final vote passed in parliament’s upper house tonight, 23 votes to 17.

The new legislation removes abortion as an offence under the state’s Crimes Act.

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
11 October 2008 11:55pm
590 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]

No , you can’t be pro-life if you contracept, ivf and believe there are allowable cases of abortion… Its like saying, I ‘m teetotal, but I take whiskey for medicinal purposes.

   
12 October 2008 2:35am
1392 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]

I’m pro-life (and pro-child’s-choice-if-they’re-worth-living) but I accept contraception if it avoids conception, ivf if they’re all implanted, and also would accept “abortions” where the mother’s life would die otherwise, but I’d call that triage instead. What matters is keeping the lives we have. Mark Driscoll and others may think it wrong for someone to actively avoid making children, but I don’t.

...

We’re praying for the situation in victoria, and particularly the Christian doctors, that God will give them strength.

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“Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.”

Dannii in Japan!

   
12 October 2008 4:15pm
1415 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]

Why oh why, whenever Catholics and contraception are mentioned in the one sentence, do I remember this song :

Every Sperm Is Sacred ( From Wikipedia )

“Every Sperm Is Sacred” is a song from the movie “Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life”.

The sketch is about a Catholic man , his wife and their 63 children, who are about to be sold for medical experimentation purposes because their parents can no longer afford to care for such a large family. When their children ask why they don’t use contraception or sterilisation, Dad explains that this is against God’s wishes, and breaks into song, the chorus of which is:

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Soon, his kids, his wife, and eventually the surrounding neighborhood join in and they all sing:

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is good
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood

The production in The Meaning of Life is quite visually elaborate, choreographed by Arlene Phillips to a storyboard by director Terry Jones.

The hearty and cheerful nature of the musical number is counterpointed as the children are marched off to their fate as the song ends, singing a dour rendition of the chorus. The song is a parody and was influenced by the song “Consider Yourself”, from the musical Oliver!.

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
12 October 2008 5:37pm
49 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]

From Saturday’s Herald Sun (emphasis mine):

The result was embraced by pro-choice MPs but decried by anti-abortionists . . .

This is a report, not an opinion piece, but the biased terminology is obvious.

They could have said Pro-abortionists and Anti-abortionists or Pro-chioce and Pro-life to show some impartiality.

   
12 October 2008 7:44pm
590 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]

Kevin it was produced by the same unGodly crowd who made the Life of Brian… contraception is against life because it makes children into an economic liability to be avoided..not a blessing..the abunbndence of which are described in the Bible as an incredible blessing.......it further divorces sexuality from an openess from life ,...and the next step dwn is sodomy and complete sterility.
So instilled is the contraceptive message in Eyurope..generous welfare benefits cannot persuade men and women to have children.

I wanted vinegar on my chips at school lunch and I was refused on health grounds. the school clinic gives out contraceptive advice to eleven pus instead!

Sydney anglicans are anxxious to make disciples ..what about “ a one more baby campaign..and I am being serious.”

You see folks , even we conservatives have bought the liberal lie to some extent

   
12 October 2008 11:01pm
1415 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
Robert ian Williams - 12 October 2008 07:44 PM

......it further divorces sexuality from an openess from life ,...and the next step dwn is sodomy and complete sterility......
I wanted vinegar on my chips at school lunch
and I was refused on health grounds. the school clinic gives out contraceptive advice to eleven plus instead!

Sydney anglicans are anxxious to make disciples ..what about “ a one more baby campaign..and I am being serious.”...

What are you talking about ?  How are we to take you seriously ?

( Edited to remove hastily worded insult at 10.15pm. )

My apologies Robert - but you really make some outlandish comments at times.

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
12 October 2008 11:45pm
169 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
Kevin Goddard - 12 October 2008 11:01 PM
Robert ian Williams - 12 October 2008 07:44 PM

......it further divorces sexuality from an openess from life ,...and the next step dwn is sodomy and complete sterility......
I wanted vinegar on my chips at school lunch
and I was refused on health grounds. the school clinic gives out contraceptive advice to eleven plus instead!

Sydney anglicans are anxxious to make disciples ..what about “ a one more baby campaign..and I am being serious.”...

What are you talking about ?  How are we to take you seriously ?

( Edited to remove hastily worded insult at 10.15pm. )

My apologies Robert - but you really make some outlandish comments at times.

Kevin, according to the CIA, the estimated Australian fertility rate for 2008 is 1.78 per woman.  You know it needs to be 2.1 for long-term population survival.  Aussies can’t afford to let it slip that much behind for many decades, can they?

Now show us that YOU should be taken seriously ;)

   
12 October 2008 11:51pm
1415 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
Dan Baynes - 12 October 2008 11:45 PM


Kevin, according to the CIA, the estimated Australian fertility rate for 2008 is 1.78 per woman.  You know it needs to be 2.1 for long-term population survival.  Aussies can’t afford to let it slip that much behind for many decades, can they?

Now show us that YOU should be taken seriously ;)

Well Dan,

As the father of THREE children ......  my wife and I think that we have MORE than done our bit to be “taken seriously” !

BTW what’s YOUR statistic ?

Cheers, Kevin

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
12 October 2008 11:55pm
590 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]

I’m trying to show how the contraceptive mentality is so ingrained ......that they do not allow salt and vinegar on the menu for school dinners, but the scholo gives out contraceptive advice to children! So skewed are todays values.

Yes Australia and the West is dying out ...and who would have thought that Asian immigration is your only hope as regards population replacement!!

   
12 October 2008 11:59pm
1415 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
Robert ian Williams - 12 October 2008 11:55 PM

Yes Australia and the West is dying out ...and ho wold have thought that Asian immigration is your only hope as regards population replacement!!

Robert,

Is there a hint of rascism in your tone ?

PLEASE EXPLAIN your comments.

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
13 October 2008 12:09am
590 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]

kevin not at all.. I am just showing ghow until the 1960s, Ausitralia kept Asians out and now because of contraception you need them

Racism amd sexism..what will I be accused of next!

   
13 October 2008 12:18am
1415 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
Robert ian Williams - 13 October 2008 12:09 AM

kevin not at all.. I am just showing ghow until the 1960s, Ausitralia kept Asians out and now because of contraception you need them

Racism amd sexism..what will I be accused of next!

I didn’t mention ‘sexism’ - and, as far as talking about ‘the 1960’s’ - it is now 2008 - some 40 + years on. Please try and keep up !

 Signature 

“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
   
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