[quote author="Samantha Young"]
Adam, you are definitely not alone. Political parties are made up who individuals who may have good intentions, but in the end the very nature of a “party” makes compromise inevitable. And I don’t mean that in a warm and fuzzy consensus way, more in a crushing of ideals and hope.

He he. 

Adam, I was also going to say that if you can’t work out if you are left, centre or right, you could try the Dems ;)

Samantha said:

If someone seriously wanted to pose a threat to Australia’s health and security, would they:

a. Try to enter illegally by boat on a remote coast and risk detention?

b. Come here for a “holiday” and be free to move around the country at will?

Unfortunately it is not just people who want to do so, who actually pose a threat to Australia’s health and security. I don’t suppose anyone has ever “wanted” to infect someone with AIDS, or introduce food & mouth disease.

Hi Jason and everyone,

thanks for taking my question seriously

Angela Crittle wrote:

Quote:
Can someone please explain to me slowly and carefully why someone HAS to have citizenship to have an opinion regarding a country’s national or foreign policies?
…
I have a range of views on various countries and their politics, do I have to be a national of all of them to have my views considered valid? As I said I must be missing something in this drama.

To which Alan Dungey wrote:

Quote:
What they have claimed, and what I say too, is when a citizen in a democratic country has a right to vote as well as a right to free speech, and exercises one right without exercising the other, we are able to draw some conclusions about how seriously he holds his opinions, and how admirable he is for speaking about them.

Being a citizen of a democracy is expressed daily as a person lives and contributes to the nation they are a citizen of, however the opportunity to vote is enormously important and something no one should ever take for granted. If we as citizens reflect on nations which have suffered under communism (on the left) or suffered until fascism (on the right) we really are privileged to live in a society where we can openly debate and express opinions etc. I’m certainly not suggesting you don’t realise this Angela, but sometimes there are people – hopefully a very small percentage – who whinge and complain, but don’t bother to vote or contribute to society in a meaningful way. It is probably towards people like this that the opinion you questioned is aimed at.

Yes, I do know all that and have presented this very argument in discussion with friends and family, especially those who choose not to vote yet choose to exercise their ‘right’ to have a view or complain and whinge. The whole compulsory vote being an expression of an adult’s commitment to the democratic ideal and a particular democracy is another issue all together - as voting time in the USA (non-compulsory?) and in Australia (legally compulsory) shows.

Please don’t think what I post is always set in stone. It is a wonderful thing to be able during my household chores to visit this forum and be stimulated by the people and the calibre of discussion here. Sure beats the stimulating effect of Exit Mold in the shower recess.

That aside I still am not convinced about someone’s opinion is any less valid just because they’re not a citizen of a country. (I think Merlin got up the Australian public’s and some of the media’s collective nose and the citizen issue is a red herring as I think this through). It’s more than interesting to see communities of like-minded people from various countries coming together to demonstrate/protest/ march on such issues as the environment & pollution, globalisation & the power of multi-nationals, etc. I suppose I’m trying to work out if an argument, opinion, point of view stands on its own merits whoever the author is or its origins....or maybe both are important to the validity of a stated position. Don’t mean to sabotage this debate like Merlin did on BB.

Thanks for the lively discussion so far. Looking forward to more......

That aside I still am not convinced about someone’s opinion is any less valid just because they’re not a citizen of a country

Hi Angela :)

I don’t think any of us have actually said that Merlin’s opinion is less valid. He is completely entitled to his opinion and by default it is no less valid than mine, or yours or Joe Bloggs sitting in Canada reading about Australia’s immigration policy.

I guess my beef with it is simply the fact that he has the opportunity and the privilege to make his voice heard by becoming a citizen (of the country he and his family ‘fled’ to for a better way of life) and voting according to his opinion and political beliefs (something which the majority of the people he is protesting on behalf of didn’t have in their homeland).  Yet he chooses not to do so, but is all up for pulling a publicity stunt which ultimately doesn’t offer any practical or real assistance to the people he claims he is trying to help.

It doesn’t make his opinion less valid, or even less true. But it makes me question just what his priorities are and why he doesn’t follow through on his convictions since he lives in a country where he has the opportunity to act upon them by taking part in the democratic process. It makes me question his motives… not his opinion as such.

As for the question of was his protest a good/helpful thing?

Personally I think not (although I didn’t actually see it). Why? Because it has done nothing but stir up further controversy about the issue whilst at the same time offering no further practical help, assistance or resolution. It has only served to further polarise and alienate people who stand on opposite sides of this debate without encouraging real or productive dialogue between them (that I can see anyway).

If one of his motivations to go into the house was to aid the cause of detained asylum seekers by protesting at his eviction then in my opinion he would have been better of spending however long he was on the show lobbying the government and using his time and energy to offer real, solid and practical help to those who are in the detention centres.

[quote author="Samantha"]I can’t help but wonder, if I was in the Big Brother house and knew at some point I would be on live television, would I have the courage to hold up a sign about The Gospel? And if it had to be small and handmade in secret, what would it say?

I’m not sure that just because we have the opportunity to do something that it is automatically the right thing to do. I guess I would want to ask myself if it would be a service to God and promotion of the gospel if I walked out on the BB stage holding up a gospel sign (with my mouth taped shut?). IMHO I doubt it would be… and in fact it might open the gospel up for ridicule. If on the other hand I was sitting across from Gretel and being interviewed I would probably be looking for an opportunity to share the gospel in some way through the forum best available to me- by engaging in sensible conversation and dialogue.

Of course I have no intention of ever setting foot anywhere near the BB House so I can leave my 2WTL booklet at home ;)

Hi Dani,

Thanks for a great post.....as usual!!!

I thought the reason Merlin taped his mouth was to to demonstrate what it is like for a refuggee (or is it asylum seeker?) in a detention centre - seen but unheard. He was trying to demonstrate what they can’t or aren’t allowed to do

engaging in sensible conversation and dialogue

As for the question of was his protest a good/helpful thing?

Personally I think not (although I didn’t actually see it). Why? Because it has done nothing but stir up further controversy about the issue whilst at the same time offering no further practical help, assistance or resolution. It has only served to further polarise and alienate people who stand on opposite sides of this debate without encouraging real or productive dialogue between them (that I can see anyway).

Possibly. I don’t think it was his intention to provide help or resolution. Rather, I saw it as a call....a call to wake up and bring the issue into our safe, warm living rooms. But silence doesn’t help either and from my living room it looks as though Australians, and that includes me, are more concerned with house and garden renovations so a little pot stirrer like Merlin is like an alarm going off when all I want to do is sleep (sweeping generalisation here).

I’m just grateful for the Merlin’s of this world who have lay themselves bare as media fodder and shown some passion for an issue. It makes me look at myself and repent for the lack of passion I have in sharing the gospel with family and friends.  But I digress......

Re: Merlin

[quote author="Jason Poulos"](What’s a blog anyway?)

Someone please nerdify Jason on what a blog is post haste! ;)

Jason,

You are not alone. Nerdification awaits us both.

Thanks for your posts brother. Your sincerity and love shines

holy kiss
angela

I hate to keep harping on this, so this will be the last exhibit (call it exhibit z)..
[quote author="Miranda Devine"]Conspiracy theorists are, of course, fringe dwellers, but they serve a purpose, pushing the boundaries of cynicism, feeding into the anti-West infotainment industry personified by the obese American filmmaker Michael Moore.

Adam wrote

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel totally disenfranchised by the current political parties? I’m neither left, nor right. A centrist with socially liberal views and conservative economic ideals, and a biblical evangelical. Who am I going to vote for?!?

I don’t know how but I missed this part of the discussion on this thread. Not enough sleep lately. Adam and Samantha you are not alone. I would really appreciate some serious discussion on party policies of the the left and right in the lead up to the election. I’m not sure if this is the appropriate thread or a bit early as the date has yet to be set. But I have some BIG concerns about both sides of politics and am at a loss as which way to vote this time around. And I’m not one to caste a donkey vote. So any discussion, opinions and constructive criticism would be most welcome.

Perhaps the feeling of being disenfranchised is bit of a tangent, but the talk of Left, Centre, and Right must have brought it on. Not that I particulary like those labels.

I’m not sure if this is the appropriate thread ... any discussion, opinions and constructive criticism would be most welcome.

If a new thread doesn’t magically appear in a few days I would gladly open one.

I was actually thinking it might be better to move this part of the discussion into the previous thread on Christian Politicians (I think Jason started it?). I was contributing some comments from a book I was reading, called “How would Jesus Vote?” and am still hoping to get through the rest of it in the near future, if possible also contributing snippits for discussion here… so perhaps that’s a better place for this discussion. You can also then review what has already been mentioned.

Cheers,
Han

Re: Merlin

[quote author="Jason Poulos"](What’s a blog anyway?)

WeB LOG

From www.blogs4god.com

What is a Blog?
A frequent, chronological publication of personal thoughts and Web links. A blog is often a mixture of what is happening in a person’s life and what is happening on the Web, a kind of hybrid diary/guide site, although there are as many unique types of blogs as there are people.

Isn’t Mr. Andrews a Christian?;

Yes, Kevin Andrews is a very committed Catholic Christian. He is active in his church attendance and has an ongoing involvement, with his wife Margaret, in marriage and family education through the Catholic Church in Melbourne. He would certainly have the Catholic Welfare people knocking on his door regularly on the refugees in detention issue.

Just an update on Merlin. He has put his new car, which all Evictees from the Big Brother House win, up for auction.

Half the money will go to Amnesty International and the other half to Kids Help Line.

Now that’s what I call putting your money where your mouth (or gaffer tape) is.

One thing to say:

Thank the Lord Big Brother is finally over for another year…