Thanks for that Craig - it is a well written and thoughtful article. There are a few other Planetshaker Insider ones that also look at the issue of accountability, including this quote :

.....the problem comes down to church culture.

The culture responsible? - “Don’t question - just believe…”

Lee Grady of Charisma Magazine had something to say about this in a recent article on Todd Bentley’s Florida Outpouring - an equally scandalous recent affair…

“But among those who jumped on the Lakeland bandwagon, discernment was discouraged. They were expected to swallow and follow… [people were told] ‘any criticism of Todd Bentley is demonic’…”

“Swallow and Follow”… I’ve also heard it less flatteringly referred to as “drink the kool-aid”.

Essentially - if you question leadership, you are rebelling; you’re a divisive influence; and in some cases, you’re satanic.

While it may be true that constant questioning of authority would be divisive, without scrutiny - what accountability do we have?

Is church culture to blame ?

Other articles :

Hillsong, Planetshakers; Running, Hiding from the MG Fallout?

MG : Official statement ?

Is Planetshakers Leadership responsible for MG ?

Channel 7 are promoting tonight’s “Today Tonight” ( 6.30pm ) with a story about Mike G’s apology etc.

We saw it here in Adelaide last night. I suggest you watch it and make your own mind up about it.

From Adelaide’s “Advertiser” :

Porn pastor’s wife vows to stand by him
By Rebekah Devlin
August 27, 2008

THE wife of fraud pastor Michael Guglielmucci has vowed to try to save their marriage, despite the humiliating revelations of his cancer hoax and pornography addiction.

Speaking exclusively to The Advertiser, Amanda Guglielmucci, 29, defended her husband, who faked a two-year battle with cancer.

She insisted he was a good man, trapped by lies which had spiralled out of control.

“I know he’s not an evil man, there’s not evil in his heart,” she said.......

article

His wife gave this testimony :

“We’re only talking two weeks (since admitting his lies), there’s a lot of stuff to deal with,” she said.

“That sort of side of things hasn’t really hit me yet, there’s many levels and layers to everything. I can almost talk about it like I’m removed from it. That’s where the professional help will help me work through that – it hasn’t hit me yet.”

Mrs Guglielmucci said her faith in God had remained unmoved throughout the ordeal.

“At times like this, it’s just a stronger resolve,” she said.

Brooke Emily Kirkness - 25 August 2008 05:17 PM

exactly andrew… i dont think we neccisarily have to agree with everything they say but come on guys .. they are still people if you dont love them or others .. thats for you personally to be held accountable for… mental illness is a very serious acusation.. if this is true then no one can judge him as being evil etc… hate the sin not the sinner.. i think we really need to re evaluate what it means to be christian and to love others.. even in disagreement… there are some very bias comments being made.. i think its important to treat god with the respect he deserves.. and also the people he created .. god bless xx

Brooke, the upshot that I keep getting from you in this discussion is “love them and ignore the faults you see because we’re called to love”. I’m sorry, but this is simply ridiculous as it clearly ignores the fact that sometimes we need to rebuke others out of love, and in a situation where a person clearly misleads people on as grander scale as what has occurred here, I think some serious rebuking needs to occur out of love! Now this one technically came out of a Church in Adelaide, not from Hillsong, but I think it is a testament to the problems in the ACC/AOG which Brian Houston does head.

In regards to your comment that they haven’t distorted the fundamental truths of Christianity, I would love to be given an example of where the fundamental truths of Christianity embrace materialism (eg. You Need More Money - Brian Houston) and get slim programs (eg. Kingdom Women Love Sex - Bobbie Houston, in which Bobbie informs women that getting a bit fitter may be beneficial to the bedroom). You can’t ignore things like this, they must be addressed.

On the part where you talk about Hillsong following the same God we do, technically so do the Catholics, does that mean the Protestant Reformation should have not occurred? Does that mean that for the sake of unity the reformers should have put up and shut up? The obvious answer is no! Just like we, out of love, must hold those around us to account!

Now it is my prayer that the AOG/Hills will reform itself, will seek to be more Bible-based and will preach Christ-crucified. In order for that to happen however, I think that they would have to give up far too much that makes them who they are.

Now it is my prayer that the AOG/Hills will reform itself, will seek to be more Bible-based and will preach Christ-crucified. In order for that to happen however, I think that they would have to give up far too much that makes them who they are.

Not to mention all the re-branding and media retractions for Hillsong Conference 2009 when they strike Joel Osteen off the speaking program…

...hey, a girl can dream ;)

N

Nic Jameson - 28 August 2008 12:00 PM

Now it is my prayer that the AOG/Hills will reform itself, will seek to be more Bible-based and will preach Christ-crucified. In order for that to happen however, I think that they would have to give up far too much that makes them who they are.

Not to mention all the re-branding and media retractions for Hillsong Conference 2009 when they strike Joel Osteen off the speaking program…

...hey, a girl can dream ;)

N

You had me believing that had happened for a second! :P

Just when we thought that the media exposure was over, the story has just been put on the front page of today’s online “Daily Telegraph” - perhaps it’s going to be a feature in the weekend printed editions.

Confessions of a porn addict pastor

AN AUSTRALIAN pastor who inspired hundreds of thousands of people with his fight against terminal cancer has admitted he faked his illness to hide an addiction to porn.

Police are now investigating disgraced pastor Michael Guglielmucci over the collection of public donations to his cancer cause.

The alarm is understood to have been raised by the Hillsong Church in Sydney which revealed the pastor’s hoax in an email..........

Brooke, the upshot that I keep getting from you in this discussion is “love them and ignore the faults you see because we’re called to love”. I’m sorry, but this is simply ridiculous as it clearly ignores the fact that sometimes we need to rebuke others out of love, and in a situation where a person clearly misleads people on as grander scale as what has occurred here, I think some serious rebuking needs to occur out of love!

i am very aware of their faults as i have attended the church numerous times..some of what they preach i totally disagree with hence i do not attend the church reguarly.. that said i think it has been made quite clear through this thread, the obvious dislike of the church. perhaps nick because i know you personally and know your character i do not intend to be speaking directly to you..and as i have maintained in saying that it is true that we should “love them” and i am fully aware of the rebuking many do in private on this forum, in social situations etc.. yet this ‘rebuking’ is seemingly getting no where .. because as many are .. sitting here complaining about them,no attempt in helpful critisism has been made .. as many also strive off the medias perspective the ironic nature of following ‘god not the world’ is brought up.. all i want to bring up is that we should be praying for them that god will redirect them .. prayer is very powerful and god will redirect them if it is his will and essentially we want to see more people brought rightly to the kindom of god.. dont we? so PRAY! all over the world the bible isnt being proclaimed properlly and to a degree we cant physically act upon this .. but god can so my friends , have faith stop squabbling with one another, stop being pessimistic saying “hillsong is bad they do/say a..b..c...” yes they do .. i have never ‘ignored their faults’..if that was all u grasped from this i will make myself clear...hillsong church are sinners , they do not always proclaim the bible accuratly and may infact be misleading society .. therefore my brothers and sisters in christ i plea with you .. pray for them ..when jesus was on the cross, he said ‘father forgive them for they know not what they do’, he said this about sinners , when he is pure.. if he prays for those who sin so should we.. and let us not forget our own sin .. be humble and faithful, gods authority and power will reign and straighten paths… i am not perfact either but please, all christians reading this ... pray your prayers are so powerful… god bless in christ.. brooke

I had thought that this topic had been dropped…

The most helpful criticism we could ever give them is for them to turn back to the Bible, to follow what it says, and to preach the truth, and not muddle it up with ideas like the Prosperity Gospel (which is no Gospel at all). How is saying come back to the Bible an unhelpful thing to do? (I believe that plenty of helpful points have been made here, to that and other ends)

On the topic of whether rebuking is having any effect or not, I’d suggest that there are a lot at Hills who see themselves as the model Church, and the suggestion that they are doing or could be doing anything wrong is usually met with an immediate shut down and refusal to listen to what the other party has to say.

Now this isn’t a rule and doesn’t always happen, but there are many I know from there who refuse to even discuss the idea that maybe, just maybe, they don’t have all the answers and could improve a few things here and there.

No Church is perfect, because we as people are imperfect and sinful. This is a lesson I think some there are still yet to learn…

What is the Church, the body of Christ. What is the body of Christ, Christians, the people/followers of Christ. What are we all stained by as people, our sins which can only be washed clean by the blood of Jesus. It’s fairly logical.

Also, it’s all well and good to bag people out for having criticisms, but if they’re not willing to listen to those criticisms, then aren’t they contributing to the problem too? Expecting everyone to listen to you (by you I mean Hillsong/its respective representatives & members) yet not being willing to hear what others have to say is far from wise and in many ways is nothing short of disrespectful.

Another point is that the media isn’t as evil and “anti-Christian” as some like to make it out to be. Yes, there are some elements who do pursue an anti-Christian agenda, however, writing them all off as being of the same vein is far from helpful nor a fair representation of reality. It is actually extremely damaging to our outreach as Christians to those in the Media to suggest this and merely reinforces the age old “Christian vs. Media” divide which has existed for far too long.

I would agree however Brooke that prayer is very important, and that we should pray for our Brothers and Sisters at Hillsong as I, and many others I’m sure already do. The question though is whether they will be willing to listen to God and allow His will to lead them rather than the will of any one person or group of people.

This is a question neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can answer and which will be clearly be responded to/answered by in the direction & decisions they take as a movement in the months/years to come (eg. if they dropped Osteen from Conference ‘09, that would be a clear sign of a step in the right direction and a sign of good things to come!)

I dare suggest that one of the reasons why some Christians are critical of Hills is due to the way in which so many have sought to lovingly bring them back to the truth yet have been shut down on the most whimsical of reasons - this shows that change must occur for them as much as it must for those who are critical of them.

Brooke Emily Kirkness - 03 November 2008 06:32 PM

perhaps nick because i know you personally and know your character i do not intend to be speaking directly to you..

On a more personal note Brooke, I’d ask that you refrain from character assessments of the above nature on such a public forum like this. I would request that you remove this section and any others like it ASAP.