I owe journalists an apology for my sarcastic remark. It is only certain journalists who deserve it.

Michael Bates - 18 August 2008 02:10 PM

However the following article provides a rather compelling reason why Pell’s reinstating an investigation may be unnecessary because the admission may need to be contextualized.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24040493-7583,00.html

Again, I think your general issue is discussion worthy but you picked a poor example.

Thanks Michael. That’s a useful dimension to the story, and it seems to have been sloppily reported. As you say, Janice’s post had already highlighted some of the problems.

There is still a problem, isn’t there, with the slowness of the process and the way things have been handled? Sadly, sexually immoral behaviour by priests is something that is going to happen from time to time, and authority figures within any denomination are capable of sinning in this way. In another generation, there may well be reasons why this sort of thing wasn’t dealt with as quickly as it should have been. But we are talking 2003, hardly six months after Cardinal Bernard Law had been forced to resign as Archbishop of Boston over his handling of sexual abuse by priests under his charge.

The article in the Australian that you linked to, however, seems to place the primary responsibility for failure to act appropriately on hastiness in paperwork. From the opinion piece:

As anyone who regularly deals with a vast stream of correspondence and relies on a dictaphone knows, to err is human. I hope that other religious leaders will learn from his embarrassment and retain diligent lawyers to make sure they’ve got the facts right before signing off on letters to complainants in cases such as these because it’s crucial that they receive due process, regardless of the merits of individual cases.

Well, yes. But in the circumstances, an administrative glitch is to blame? That would be disappointing to hear, for someone in a similar situation whose personal circumstances with regard to clerical abuse were more clear-cut.

In Catholic sacramental theology Holy orders, like all sacraments come directly from God,a nd the role of the person administering is extrinsic. Jurisdiction howver comes via the Holy See, and the local bishop ( the ordinary)who exercises the jurisdiction locally. A man may be a priest, forever but he needs a faculty/license from the bishop to operate.

I note that the title of the post remains unchanged....but that just illustrates the hatred against the Church of Rome eveidenced in certain circles.

Proportionately Roman catholic priests abuse no more than clergy of other Churches? religions..There are 476,000 Catholic priests inthe worls, 2 million religious..... and the percentage of abusers tiny.

Robert ian Williams - 20 August 2008 10:48 AM

Proportionately Roman catholic priests abuse no more than clergy of other Churches? religions..There are 476,000 Catholic priests inthe worls, 2 million religious..... and the percentage of abusers tiny.

Robert, I’m sure that you’re correct in that assertion. Nevertheless, sexual abuse by any clergy is a terrible thing, particularly because of the nature of the relationship between the abuser and abused. I know that in the Anglican church (at least here in Sydney) there is a unit set up to deal with these issues-among other things they arrange training for clergy and deal with allegations of abuse. Do you know if the Catholic church has any similar mechanisms? I would hope that procedures in all denominations would have been tightened in recent years as people become more aware of the abuses of the past, but I don’t really know how far others have taken it

Gordon,

Well, yes. But in the circumstances, an administrative glitch is to blame? That would be disappointing to hear, for someone in a similar situation whose personal circumstances with regard to clerical abuse were more clear-cut.

It would but ... is there any reason to think that that would happen? The not so “clear cut” nature of the situation probably resulted in it attracting less diligence and enthusiasm then the “clear cut” case that Pell was dealing with the same day without any apparent glitch.

Jean,

…I know that in the Anglican church (at least here in Sydney) there is a unit set up to deal with these issues-among other things they arrange training for clergy and deal with allegations of abuse. Do you know if the Catholic church has any similar mechanisms? I would hope that procedures in all denominations would have been tightened in recent years as people become more aware of the abuses of the past, but I don’t really know how far others have taken it .

There seem to be two similar mechanisms in the Catholic Church. The main one apparently used almost everywhere (although I read a report suggesting victims think the alternative is best) seems to be called “Towards Healing”. Another snipe at Pell in the media recently revealed that the Towards Healing in that instance (and presumably generally) involved an independent investigation, an apology, an offer of compensation, and an offer of ongoing counseling paid for by the Church.

Jean, each hierarchy has dealt with the matter separately, but there are strict guidelines from the Holy See.. Every parish in the UK has a lay child protection officer...with a notice in every porch giving his/her address.

Yes child abuse ( and in most cases it is homosexuality with teenage boys) is evil and sad,,,but the Church helps both the victim and must by the commission of Christ give pastoral support to the offenders...whilst removing them from office , until thay are cleared. if hey are not cleared and sent to jail, they still must be prayed for and ministered to. They will never work again and the only unforgiveable sin is final impeniitence.

The whole child abuse issue is now like a Salem witch hunt in the UK..and dads are frightened about bathing their baby daughters....or allowing chldern to get into bed with them and their Mum in the morning!

Didn’t you jump on your parents bed on Christmas nmorning, opening presents!

A mob on an estate near Portsmouth torched a house of a paedetrician!

We should also remember that many persons have been wrongly accused. A head teacher near my home ( with three children) was accused of touching up a girl. He hung himself and then the girl admitted she made it all up.

“used almost everywhere “ above = used almost everywhere in Australia

Robert ian Williams - 20 August 2008 06:20 PM

We should also remember that many persons have been wrongly accused. A head teacher near my home ( with three children) was accused of touching up a girl. He hung himself and then the girl admitted she made it all up.

If this is so, it is all the more reason for denominational authorities not to let matters slip because of poor administration.

You know, sexual abuse is not the only form of inter-personal abuse to which clergy (human beings) are liable.

yes and the most serious abuse is faulty catechesis and poor presentaton of the Gospel. message....its the case of the watchman in Ezekiel.

Janice and Robert, I agree that there are other forms of abuse to be concerned about. Just at the moment, however, the Roman Catholic church seems to have some particular difficulties in this area. Today’s SMH raises another set of incidents.

Good on you Gordon for bringing this topic back to the top of the forum list almost a week after people stopped discussion in the thread. Mind you, good thing I’m not the suspicious type who would interpret such behaviour as an intentional slow-burn campaign conducted out of some deep-seated hatred for the Catholic Church.

You’re not a forum regular, are you Joshua?

Sometimes subjects return months later. Our record, if I recall correctly, were a couple earlier this year that had returned from 2004.

However, if you have an opinion on the subject, please go ahead and offer it. These forums are fairly tolerant of ad hominem argument, but eventually we appreciate it when people offer an opinion on the OP.

Well, as you may remember, I did suggest it might be a worthwhile exercise for you to actually refer to the Catechism, encyclicals and Councils (rather than simply linking to a broad section therein) and flesh out your argument a little bit more so that I could have something of (any) substance to which I might be able to respond. Unfortunately, I’m still waiting for you to do this.

I pointed to a link in the Roman Catholic Catechism which suggests that the priesthood is, within Roman Catholic thinking, an ontologically separate category. Do you think this is an unfair view for them to hold?