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Mark Driscoll’s visit to Sydney
18 August 2008 11:38pm
5368 posts
  [ Ignore ]

Comments?

I did have another Mark Driscoll thread running, and here’s the OP:

The Desiring God people have a 5 minute youtube advert for a US conference. The ad features Mark Driscoll speaking about harsh language.

You can find my opinion, along with a summary of some of the relevant points, here , but it is well worth checking the short clip for yourself.

Opinions?

But that one seems to have turned a bit silly, so this thread is a more general one where people can talk about other things to do with Mark’s visit.

[edit] PS: OA! Stay away!

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18 August 2008 11:56pm
256 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]

I recently had to teach on Ruth at one of my Sunday Schools-my boss insisted that I needed to watch Driscoll’s sermon series on Redeeming Ruth. It did seem a bit of overkill, watching six one hour sermons in order to give a 5 minute talk (it actually ended up more like 7 minutes) but it really did help. Even though I felt I already knew Ruth well, he expounded on some points I hadn’t considered, and he built my understanding of the significance of the book.
He may look a bit out there, but his views are quite conservative and his love of God’s word shines through in his preaching. Each sermon lasted an hour, but I never once felt it was too long or wished he’d get to the point (which has been known to happen during twenty minute sermons). I am very much looking forward to hearing him at Katoomba.

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“For I know the plans I have for you” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” Jer 29:11

   
19 August 2008 12:39am
2018 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]

I listened to Mark Driscoll’s long talks on Ruth, and while I felt there was a lot of good stuff there, John Piper’s shorter talks were much more about the book of Ruth.

Mark’s talks sounded like they were about how to get a partner. He drew all kinds of lessons from the events described in the book, but when it came to the late-night episode between Ruth and Boaz, he suddenly drew back and told us it was descriptive, not prescriptive, though every other detail apparently was prescriptive.

In his talks, he speaks as if he were your father. His advice to the girls was to ask a potential suitor
1. Do you love Jesus?
2. Have you got a job?

It would be very wearing if he were your pastor and every talk was over an hour long, I think. It was OK listening en route to work and back again, because I could break the talks up.

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20 August 2008 1:08pm
122 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]

Mark Driscoll will also be speaking on the Central Coast.

Monday Aug 25 - LOVIN’ THE COAST - Mark Driscoll will speak about how being on mission with Jesus is the best way to love the Coast.

Tuesday Aug 26 - SICK OF RELIGION? - Mark Driscoll will speak about how following Jesus has nothing to do with religion.

There are a couple of tickets left to Tuesday night and a handful left to the Monday night.

The password has been removed from the registration page - so tickets are available to people outside the Central Coast/Newcastle.

CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

www.driscollonthecoast.com

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Dave Miers
http://davemiers.com

   
25 August 2008 3:22pm
1532 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]

I’ve never considered this observation about ‘conservative Christianity’ before :

John Dickson, Anglican director of the Centre for Public Christianity, says Driscoll is the best preacher of generation Y, likening his motormouth style to that of a stand-up comic who ranges freely in his sermons without notes and dips into stories of his own life without a “stuffy, pious feel”. Confessions of his own shortcomings add to his authenticity. “He’s made conservative Christianity almost sexy, which is a very astonishing thing,” Dickson says.

Thanks John - you’ve made my day !!

The SMH article about Mark Driscoll is here :

God’s motormouth looks to set us straight

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

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25 August 2008 3:38pm
89 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]

he is a mans Joyce Meyer

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go the swans

   
25 August 2008 3:50pm
1532 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Andrew Underwood - 25 August 2008 03:38 PM

he is a mans Joyce Meyer

If that’s the case, can I please get my $28 back !

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
25 August 2008 4:00pm
713 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]

Hi,

That SMH article was quite positive.

Mark D.’s style gives the journalist plenty of “short grabs” to work with
and his admission of mistakes would be very refreshing for them compared to the world of politicians etc.

Some SMH readers will undoubtedly take the word conservative used in the article in a political sense rather than in the sense of an orthodox Bible-based belief, but that’s life.

Grace & peace,

Terry

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25 August 2008 5:17pm
1464 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Kevin Goddard - 25 August 2008 03:50 PM
Andrew Underwood - 25 August 2008 03:38 PM

he is a mans Joyce Meyer

If that’s the case, can I please get my $28 back !

Driscoll preached at SMBC this morning and I can assure you Kevin that you’ve made a worthwhile investment.

Yours in Christ,
Mark

   
25 August 2008 5:29pm
1532 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]

Hi Mark,

Yes we’ve got a dozen going along and we’re really looking forward to hearing him challenge us on Wednesday night. ( Obviously, it was the comparison to that other person that I was objecting to in my last post - having heard her scratchy and irritating twang on middle of the night TV broadcasts in the past - without even considering the content of her talks. )

Cheers, Kevin

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“ Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. “

( 1 Thessalonians 5:11 )

   
26 August 2008 10:35am
852 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]

He’ll be speaking at Moore college at 2pm tomorrow. I’m pretty sure you don’t have to be a student to come.

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26 August 2008 10:54am
5485 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Andrew Underwood - 25 August 2008 03:38 PM

he is a mans Joyce Meyer

This is definitely not true!

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26 August 2008 11:14am
89 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]

I really shouldn’t have expected anything distinctively sane from a magazine called ‘Relevant‘.  That was a huge mistake, and one that I can assure my faithful readership I will never make again.  The magazine as a whole is committed to pedantically insisting that Christians can, pretty much be cool too, if they just try hard enough.  Personally, I find this idea completely insane.  Out of all the people I’ve ever met I have yet to meet someone who is clearly a Christian who is able to fill out all the aspects of coolness that are demanded by our culture.  But I digress.  My point in all this was merely thatI shuld have expected something as stupid, insipid, and sophomoric as this from Relevant Magazine.

In a multiple-person interview that origninally ran in early 2007, Relevant Magazine asked seven questions to various evangelical church leaders about what the most important challenges to the evangelical churches in a America are at this time in history.  The answers vary from the utterly boring, to the sadly uniformed, to the sort of ok, to the downright ridiculous.  Mark Driscoll’s answers however, were in a class of their own.  In response to the question “What do you see as the greatest challenge for young Christians in the next 10 years?” he responded:
There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. Some emergent types [want] to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelation, Jesus is a pride fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up. I fear some are becoming more cultural than Christian, and without a big Jesus who has authority and hates sin as revealed in the Bible, we will have less and less Christians, and more and more confused, spiritually self-righteous blogger critics of Christianity.

I am of course most interested in Driscoll’s comment that he is unable to worship someone he can beat up.  Strangely enough this would seem that he is unable to worship Jesus.  As John Howard Yoder pointed out in reflection on John 1, the proclamation that the Word became flesh “does not simply mean that God became tangible.  It means he became weak, undignified, vulnerable.  The power behind the creation came among us in such a way that we can hurt him.” The whole reality of Jesus is as one who makes himself vulnerable, who puts himself at the mercy of the forces of sin and death that we have unleashed upon the world.  Driscoll is almost certainly right, he could indeed beat up Jesus, and if he saw him, I’m afraid he probably would!

The real Jesus, the Jesus who makes himself vulnerable, thereby revealing the nature and reality of God from all eternity as love is not nearly exciting enough for Driscoll.  His Jesus is a kaleidoscopic amalgamation of Chuck Norris, Bruce Willis, and a cadre of mixed martial-arts welterweight champions.  If Jesus is not an ass-kicking man’s man who changes his own oil, wins bar fights, and ropes cattle, he certainly is not worthy of Driscoll’s worship.

What is ultimately so revealing about this whole statement is not so much that is shows clearly that Mark Driscoll is insanely insecure about his own male identity – though it certainly shows that with sublime clarity.  What is revealing about this quote is how it shows the bombastically western notion of masculinity that defines large swaths of evangelicalism.  For Driscoll anything less than the assertion that God himself is a gun-slinging son of a bitch makes one into a wuss who deserves nothing more than ridicule.  Driscoll lives in a world of binary oppositions.  You either have to be a cage fighter ready to beat the shit out of anyone who so much as glances at your girlfriend, or you are a pot-smoking hipster pinko who does nothing but surf the net on a Mac all day and drink organic microbrews.

t’s a wonderfully simple world of black and white simplicity that Driscoll lives in.  And what makes it really great is that he gets to live at the very tip top of this world’s power structure (maybe just below his Jesus character, pictured to the left).  He is the last of the true Christians.  In a world of effeminate losers toting Derrida around in their beer-stained man purses, Driscoll is standing in the gap, fighting for truth, justice, and of course, the American way.  It’s a world where everything is stark, everything is simple and God is remade comfortably in Mark Driscoll’s masculine image.  Wallowing in his self-aggrandizement, Driscoll makes certain to let everyone know that he is one of the 25 most powerful people in Seattle according to Seattle Magazine (as advertised on the site for Driscoll’s new book).  Just about everything he says or does seems like a plea: “Goddammit, I’m a man!  Am too!”

What makes the world of Mark Driscoll so fascinating is not just that it insane (which it is), or that is so obviously the product of western culture rather than the Bible or the Christian tradition (which is clear).  What is interesting about it is how utterly obvious it is that this world is a complete fabrication.  I cannot imagine anyone looking for a moment at the stuff that Mark Driscoll spouts and not immediately realizing that this guy is obviously freaked out by the world and is doing everything that he can to construct an alternative reality for himself and other like-minded people to live in.  In Mark Driscoll’s world Jesus actually did come to kick the Romans’ ass (or we wish he had) and he calls us to be iron-pumping, football heroes who slam nerds into lockers and date the hottest girl on the cheerleading squad (without having premarital sex of course).

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go the swans

   
26 August 2008 11:15am
89 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]

In other words, Mark Driscoll is Wally Cleaver from Leave it to Beaver.  Or, more accuarately, he is Wally after his freshman year of college.  He’s wised up enough to know that he better be able to beat people up, and force his point in order to keep himself above the morass of pagan decadence in this evil world, but hasn’t yet awoken to the fact that his world, which he thinks is divinely ordained, is in fact, a culturally produced schizophrenia.  It is the death throws of a handfull of white western males who are consumed with the terror of the knowledge deep down that they are no longer in control of American culture and history.  And this is precisely why Mark Driscoll is pathetic.  In spite of all his bombast and goofy machismo, he is, in the last analysis a very sad, lonely person.  That’s how you get when you have to construct your whole world.  The very things that could bring him liberation are the very things he sneers at.  Living out of control, embracing vulnerability, allowing oneself to be put into question, these are the very things that he cannot stomach.  They are far too effeminate and girly for a man like him to countenance.  They are marks of the hippie Jesus that Driscoll could never worship.  However they are the very shape of the salvation offered in crucified, murdered Jesus.  Driscoll is rejecting the very things that could set him free in his attempt to make Christianity distinctive.

His loss.

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go the swans

   
26 August 2008 11:35am
20 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]

So if I can try and summarise your view of Mark Driscoll - you don’t like him?

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26 August 2008 4:02pm
89 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]

yes i do not like him and can not see why people like him

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go the swans

   
   
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