Schriener belongs to the Southern Baptists and their new President is going to disprove the false Calvinist points , including the once saved always saved ....perseverence of the saints.

The Bible, but especially the New Testament was written as a record of the important things said by Jesus and his eye witness followers.

The scripture is said to have been God breathed. It has everything in it to teach inform and edify Christians, according to its own text.

I would like the different Christian denominations to sit down and go through each chapter, and agree logically on the meaning of the texts. It is complete nonsense and drivel to say that it is impossible to arrive at a fairly accurate comprehension of the text.

The early Church was asked by Constantine “what do you believe” and a record of holy inspired works was compiled into the New Testament. Other works were considered to fall outside the area defined.
Do Catholics say now, that we should ignore the teachings, and truths of that book? Should the words of the Apostolic Age be ignored because of later false ideas?

The Dark Ages brought in much superstition and pagan inspired supposition, which drifited into the Roman Church. The modern Catholic church refuses to denounce these crazy ideas because to admit errors would undermine its dictatorial position over its followers.

People who say this are not prepared to understand it because of a misdirected religious history in understanding these words. It is a stubborn pig headed approach to understanding scripture. Luther was right!

Christians who igore, or counter view the scriptures of the New Testament are being recalcitrant.

I would like to hear from some of the people who have posted, where certain texts in the New Testament are incorrect. Not just general sweeping statements.

Ken
Did you know that Luther wanted the epistle of James taken out of the bible because it seemed to contradict his interpretation of being saved by faith alone.  He also took measures for the word “alone” to be added to its text on justification by faith.  Was he right to do this? Why is it that protestants can say their leaders in the faith have the correct interpreation.  Are you not all submitting to your own ‘pope’.

The Bible terrifies, not by its obscurity, but by the plainness of its statements.

The Bible is not just a book, it is how God more clearly speaks to us. And we in return may speak to Him, through Lord Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

John 20:31

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

But, Isiaih 29:18,19

In that day the deaf will hear the words of the scroll,
and out of gloom and darkness
the eyes of the blind will see.

Once more the humble will rejoice in the LORD;
the needy will rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

Galatians 1: 6-9

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

I hope these quotes will help out Catholic brothers to understand that scripture is important to understanding their salvation.

Hi Donna.
Concerning Luther and James. When Luther published his first translation of the NT into German, his preface included this most infamous of statements about James being a right strawy epistle.

However, all subsequent editions do not have this statement.

He deliberately removed the comment and wrote and preached on James as canonical.

But this rash action is what history has remembered.

Donna you said:

Ken
Did you know that Luther wanted the epistle of James taken out of the bible because it seemed to contradict his interpretation of being saved by faith alone.  He also took measures for the word “alone” to be added to its text on justification by faith.  Was he right to do this? Why is it that protestants can say their leaders in the faith have the correct interpreation.  Are you not all submitting to your own ‘pope’.

It is true that the book of James seems to say that we need works. But I only think that he is saying that works are proof of faith. Faith without any sign of it in people’s lives is surely a problem.

The book of James was written in a time of great testing and persecution of Christians. Perserverance was being urged by James in his letter. He was urging them to live lives of patient endurance in many areas of life. He was saying that they were being tested in their faith, and needed to stand up for what they believed.

There were many ways that the people could have responded to the persecution. They can either pull together and help each other, or or they can compromise with the world, and split apart into bickering factions.

Secondly the letter is filled with the teaching of Jesus.No other letter of the New Testament has as many references to the teaching of Jesus as in the Book of James. Most of the phrases in the letter allude to the sermon on the Mount.

Luther probably objected to James because it didnt sound, on the surface, like Paul’s “salvation by grace”, but the letter of James is extremely important to the Church today.

Oh David
Now you know how Catholics feel when protestants keep bringing up issues regarding bad popes, the dark ages and the list goes on. 

A little rash action which has caused so much division.  What a shame

Ken
You show your ignorance of what the Catholic Church teaches on Sacred Scripture. 

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Article 3 - Sacred Scripture

103 - For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body.  She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body.

104 - In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it not as a human word, “but as what it really is, the word of God”.  “In the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven comes lovingly to meet his children, and talks with them”.

105 - God is the author of Sacred Scripture.  “The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit”.

Just a couple of statements.

So Ken, thanks for your help, but I think we will be ok.

the letter [of James] is filled with the teaching of Jesus.No other letter of the New Testament has as many references to the teaching of Jesus as in the Book of James. Most of the phrases in the letter allude to the sermon on the Mount.

Yet the name of Jesus only occurs twice in its five chapters!

Plus the fact , no “ bad “ pope taught anything differently from those who led holy lives. They didn’t convene a Synod to become more human about fornication and legalise adultery..like the Episcopal Church in the Anglican Communion. Or how Evangelicals have accomodated themselves to divorce, contraceptioin and masturbation.

Even the 39 articles agrees that the unworthiness of ministers does not invalidate thier sacramental ministrations.

Far from disproving Catholicism, the six or so bad popes prove its indestructibility and the hand of God .

As for ken’s post Constantine apostasy theory , it falls down on historical and Scriptural analysis..some non- christian groups like the JW’s believe that a false religion was started by Constantine which teaches that Jesus is God. Some Jews claim ithat this is when Jesus was deified, with the taking on ideas of anthromorphic Greek and Roman mythology.

It is all rubbish...as are kens claims .....the doctrines ken objects too can be found centuries before Constantine...baptismal regeneration, the Eucharistic sacrifice,the real presence,prayers for the dead, confession to a priest, the rule of bishops,icelibacy,nvocation of saints, belief that the Bishop of Rome was the successor to St Peter. ........to name but a few.

The Church did incorporate a few pagan pracices , which did NOT conflict with Christian teaching..the wedding ring, pagan festivals , pagan temples etc were changed into Christian ones etc. 

Thats why Sydney Anglicans inherited from us and celeberate Easter and Christmas. However an infallible Church knew how to do this.

However those hat did contradict, like infanticide, abortion, homosexuality, crucifixion,divorce , worship of false Gods, temple prosttution,etc were driven out.

However by contrast in the centuries prior to Constantine we cannot find the preaching of justification by Faith alone, a settled Canon of Scripture, a loose anti-hierarchical congreagtional church system, infrequent communion services with grape juice etc

The onus is on Ken to show continuity for his beliefs , but he cannot. The earliest recorded material shows Church Fathers warning against heretics who deny that that the Eucharist becomes the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ!

The answer one sometines gets is a catch 22 one. “Oh the Cathoic Church destoyed all th eeveidence and tampered with the sources.”..which oddly is the reaction some Mormon missionaries recently also gave me!

Having just seen the Pope on the news “bless” some young children by making the sign of the cross on their heads, what exactly does this signify ? Is the receiver - be they children or adult - any better off because they have received a papal blessing ? What is the efficacy of receiving one ? How different now is the receiver of a papal blessing than if they had not ?

Wow, this is a sight to behold.

Sydney Anglican Forum to be used as a site for the propagation of Roman Catholic doctrine!

The point about Holy Scripture is not that it be venerated (=worshipped) but that it be read, taught and believed.

The precious doctrine of justification by faith alone in Christ alone is not to be given up any time soon.

I commend to Donna, Robert ian Williams and any other Catholics lurking on this forum Luther’s Heidelberg Disputation and especially theses 25, 26 and 27.

# 25 He is not righteous who does much, but he who, without work, believes much in Christ.
# 26 The law says, »do this«, and it is never done. Grace says, »believe in this«, and everything is already done.
# 27 Actually one should call the work of Christ an acting work (operans) and our work an accomplished work (operatum), and thus an accomplished work pleasing to God by the grace of the acting work.

Check out this link. The proofs Luther offers are well worth considering as well.

David Palmer - 20 July 2008 07:13 PM

Wow, this is a sight to behold.

Sydney Anglican Forum to be used as a site for the propagation of Roman Catholic doctrine!

Must be a ‘post-modern’ thing David !

David
Sorry for lurking.  Some have welcomed us.  You are not obviously one of them.
Perhaps if you don’t want Roman Catholicism propagated on this forum, people should desist from making claims that are false.

As for Luther’s disputation.  I have been inundated with Luther and many anti-Catholic books for many years.  I searched both sides of the story.  My observation is that Protestants claim to be bible-believing Christians, but in practice they use only those texts which are comfortable.  On the other hand, when I searched the Catholic position, I found out that the Catholic CHurch uses much more scripture to back up their position.  Hence, that is why I am a Catholic.

David
Also, your point about venerating is taken out of context.  When we say “your worship” to a judge, do you seriously think we worship the judge.  The word venerate in this context means to hold in the highest esteem.  We do not worship a bible.  This is nitpicking.