I take it that the Bible and many ancient books were written to be read aloud. Having read through the Bible 5 times over the past 3 years, I’m now embarking on reading through The Books of the Bible: a presentation of Today’s New International Version aloud and am finding it thrilling.

I’ve completed Genesis and am now reading Job. There is something quite different about reading aloud. It slows you down and allows you to hear the different genres and language styles [as mediated to us in English].

I’m grateful to God for my Sunday School teachers, for ministers, lecturers at Bible college and all those commentaries and helps. But actually reading the Bible itself cannot be OVERvalued [thanks Bob!] if you want to understand it and do what it says.
The BOTB is especially helpful in this project, because the verses, chaptersand headings have been removed, though there are still helpful line breaks of varying lengths. So the BOTB has removed some interpretive filters and added another, but so far, I find it convincing and aiding readability.

David McKay - 17 July 2008 11:16 AM

But actually reading the Bible itself cannot be undervalued if you want to understand it and do what it says.

Hi David

I take it that you mean it cannot be over-valued . . .

I normally read the Bible aloud for my quiet times for similar reasons that you outline.  You do take it in differently when you read it this way.

Regards,

Bob

Thanks Bob!
I once wrote a song in which I said Jesus’ love was unboundless ... but I was about 15 at the time!

Someone got me to amend it to unbounded.

Whoops!

I would have gone with boundless, as did the writer of “O the deep, deep love of Jesus”. :-)

boundless wouldn’t scan, unfortunately.

David , are you reading the Bible as the ancient Fathers did?

Do you see baptismal regeneration as that was the sole interpretation until John Calvin?

Robert
There are enough threads going where you can debate Roman Catholic v Protestant theology - let’s not hijack this one as well.
Bob

Can you show me baptismal regeneration in the Scriptures, Robert? I can see immersion for believers clearly, I can see that is more important than many people today make it, but less important than others do, but there is no baptismal regeneration in the Bibles I read.

I am intending to read through the New Jerusalem Study Bible in my next read through, but don’t expect to find it there either [unless it is in the non-canonical notes].

David McKay - 18 July 2008 01:24 PM

Can you show me baptismal regeneration in the Scriptures, Robert? I can see immersion for believers clearly, I can see that is more important than many people today make it, but less important than others do, but there is no baptismal regeneration in the Bibles I read.

I am intending to read through the New Jerusalem Study Bible in my next read through, but don’t expect to find it there either [unless it is in the non-canonical notes].

Warning!  Warning!  Danger Will Robinson.  You are being taken off thread!

Sorry Bob, but Roman Catholicism and Biblical truth are actually synonomous.

Acts 2 37-42 ..... Be baptized for the remission of your sins ....( note not the suymbolic representation of your sins having been forgiven)

!Titus 3 5

Ezekiiel ch 36...a prophetic picture of the efect of baptism

the context of John 3:5...water...its not ambiotic fluid

For Baptism now saves you. (! Peter 3 !8-22) James Macarthy in his Gospel according to Romanism , describes this as one of the most difficult passage in the NT. The difficulty is of his making, I fear

And I confess one baptism for the remission of sins...recited by Bob at every HC service. are you saying you know better than the bishops framing this clause in the Nicene Creed.

1662 BCP, “ now seeing this child is now regenerate....”
Eliminated by CESA in their new alternative Prayer Book

Robert, you are cheating by not quoting the whole of Acts 2:38, but deliberately leaving out the beginning of the verse. How many of those now “baptised” first repent, as Peter instructed?

The 1 Peter 3 passage is clearly not baptismal regeneration, because Peter says it is the confession and baptism which save, if you read the whole verse. How many of those now “baptised” confess at the same time?

Beasley-Murray argues that “one baptism for the remission of sins” is much more ancient than infant baptism [which began approximately 180 AD and did not become universal for a couple of hundred more years] and refers to the whole process of conversion, as we have in Ephesians 4, just as sometimes the NT calls the salvation experience conversion or confession or repentance or combines some of these.

Robert ian Williams - 18 July 2008 06:14 AM

David , are you reading the Bible as the ancient Fathers did?

Do you see baptismal regeneration as that was the sole interpretation until John Calvin?

Hi Robert,

Despite your protestations, your post I quoted above reads as a deliberate attempt to hijack this thread and as such seems to me quite rude.

I have seen a comment you posted on another thread on these forums
about the fact that discussion here is conducted in a better atmosphere than some other forums.

At the moment, it seems to me that some of your behaviour, such as the post above and your repeated starting of new threads on the same topic, is the most present threat to the positive atmosphere of these forums.

Yours in Christ,
Terry
[Edited slightly for clarity]

G’day,

Robert and David, please take your Baptismal Regeneration discussion to a more appropriate thread.

Yours in Christ,
Mark [Moderator]

Bob Cameron - 18 July 2008 01:28 PM

Warning!  Warning!  Danger Will Robinson. You are being taken off thread!

Could someone please enlighten this Pom re. this (?) Aussie expression?

Dan Baynes - 18 July 2008 06:52 PM

Bob Cameron - 18 July 2008 01:28 PM

Warning!  Warning!  Danger Will Robinson. You are being taken off thread!

Could someone please enlighten this Pom re. this (?) Aussie expression?

Hi Dan,

The Warning!  Warning!  Danger Will Robinson part is from an old American TV series called Lost in Space.

It was the sort of thing the resident robot said to one of the heroes.

You may be too young to remember it?

Grace & peace,
Terry

Sorry for taking the bait, Mark and thank you for your rebuke.