Just wanting to know other peoples thoughts on this:
I just returned last year from a doing a tour in Talil, Iraq as part of the Overwatch Battle Group (OBG-W 2), and now I’m off again to the middle east, this time Afghanistan. As an evangelical Christian, I personally think it is right with going over there and doing my job, serving my country in the defence force. I also see what I am doing as my biblical duty, in a sense.
Now, being only human, and therefore inherently fallible (and seeing as there aren’t many people I can ask this question to up here in Darwin) I’m throwing it open to other brothers and sisters in Christ to see what they think. As a Christian, should I really be involved in what I am doing? Should we have really gone to these places in the first place? Like I said before I’m confident I’m doing the right thing but open to correction if theologically right.
My personal view is that the Allied engagement in Afghanistan is justifiable under these principles.
What do others think?
Hi John
Just to add to Jeremy’s comment, it seems to me that as a man ‘under authority’ your personal views are only one part of the analysis. That is, even if you had doubts about the rightness of a particular conflict it still may be the right thing for you to go as an expression of your submission to those in authority over you (both those in immediate authority over you militarily, and the government under which you serve). If, of course, you were ordered to act in a way which you believed to be an act of disobedience toward God, you might well choose to disobey that order; you might also choose to accept the consequences of such refusal to obey an order. And if you were ordered into a conflict that you believed was intrinsically wrong and that to go would in and of itself be displeasing to God, the only choice at that point might be to resign from the military.
Forgive all the ‘might’s in this post. But as someone who has only thought about these issues at the theoretical end, and has never served in the military, I am loathe to be dogmatic. I am fairly settled in my belief in the concept of ‘just war’, but as I’ve said, that is only one of the issues you need to think about. All the best in your thinking, in your military service, and in your service for the gospel.
I think it’s immaterials what you think about the merits of our involvement in Iraq or Afghanistan (though I happen to support both - and I understand that most soldiers have a strong sense of pride in what we are doing in these countries).
A soldier’s job is to go wherever the elected government of his country deploys him; and a Christian in the army should be the bets soldier he can be.
A Christian friend of mine has recently been posted to Iraq as part of an Australian Army “replacement” unit to Baghdad.
Our church prayed for him (and his wife) a few weeks ago, before he left Australia and we continue to pray for him and his responsibilities there.
I think the article by Andrew Cameron that Jeremy gave you a link to is a useful summary of the majority position of evangelical Christians (and I am not an Anglican by the way).
Who was the person with the greatest faith that Jesus met during his earthly ministry?
When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help.
“Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed and in terrible suffering.”
Jesus said to him, “I will go and heal him.”
The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed.
For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, “I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.”
[Matthew 8: 5-10, NIV translation]
The centurion in this passage was a Roman army officer of the occupation/peace-keeping force in that region.
The ancient Roman army structure was a bit different to ours but he was most probably the equivalent of an Australian Army company commander.
as a former Naval Officer I have done a bit of thinking about this issue. I think you are generally on the right track in your thinking and have some pretty good advice from this forum. Provided the purpose of the operation is ultimately about defence and protection of others....
It is worth keeping in mind that your decision making process of right & wrong doesn’t end with the decision on whether a particular coflict is justifiable. You need to seek to do what is right at every point while you are on deployment too. If (God forbid) you should have to disobey what you believe is an illegal or unjust order then there may be some pretty heavy consequences, but you are called to do what is right.
Can I encourage you to keep in touch with fellow military Christians, especially through Fighting Words Ministries (http://www.fightingwords.org.au/). Lots of folk there have to think through similar issues and they have some good resources. (Unfortunately the little book by Mark Warren on ‘Living by the Sword’ is out of print, but more should be available soon.)
Will keep you in our prayers along with all others serving overseas.
“...a Roman army officer of the occupation/peace-keeping force”
might be stretching the comparison a bit. I don’t think you could call the Romans in Judea peace-keeping forces in anything like the modern sense.
Good to point out that a soldier’s faith was commended by Jesus though.
Hi Adam,
I think there is plenty of evidence that the presence of the Roman Army across the Empire significantly reduced the ongoing tribal/ethnic wars
(after the initial violent conquest of course).
See the brief Wikipedia article on Pax Romana, for example.
However, I take your point in that the Roman army role was not really comparable to a single-country peace-keeping operation such as those the Australian Army has undertaken in recent years.
“Occupation force” is the more apt term.
Possibly a modern situation with some similarities with the Roman army’s role as an occupation force would be the USSR/Russian army’s role in Eastern Europe for several decades after World War 2.
Hi John,
as a serving officer in the RAN, who is currently employed in parish ministry as part of the inservice chaplaincy training scheme, I agree pretty much with the thread of this discussion. So rather than add to that I just wanted to pick up on your comment about evangelical Christian support in Darwin.
I am aware of at least one card carrying reformed evangelical - CHAP Mozz O’Sullivan is serving with 1st Armoured Reg in Darwin. Drop me a line if you want to have a chat to Mozz and don’t have his contact details.
As you know it can be a tough mission field serving Christ in the military, it’s good when Christians can get together and support each other.
I pray that the Lord will keep you strong and that you will continue to honor Him in all that you do as he matures you in Christ.
Oh, by the way, as this is my first post, I apologise upfront for the numerous protocols I’ve no doubt already breached in this post.
I want to add to this discussion the great encouragement that it is to hear of devoted followers of Christ serving in the military. I nearly joined the army some 32 years ago (won’t go into why I didn’t proceed, mostly because it would be a pretty boring story). I often think of how tough it must be for Christian men and women in the military, and I know one or two young Christian men contemplating such a career (including, now my own 16 year old son). It’s good to know there are at least some brethren there to encourage them!
Besides the centurian of great faith (Matthew 8:5-13) that Terry Gallagher mentioned above, there were the soldiers who asked John the Baptist what they should do (Luke 3:14). John did not advise them to reconsider their military profession.
Another centurion, Cornelius, is described in the Bible as ‘devout’ and ‘just’ (Acts 10:2,22). God’s approval of Cornelius was evident in that the Holy Spirit fell upon him and his household (Acts 10:44–46). His military status as someone required to fight and kill fin foreign lands if ordered seems to have been irrelevant. When Peter called for objections, if any, to his being baptized (Acts 10:47), the issue of his military profession and a soldier’s duty to kill was not raised, and Peter commanded that he and his household be baptized (Acts 10:48).
I’m in the Army Reserve myself, and these issue are still not 100% resolved in my own mind.
There are lots of Bible verses about upholding the law and opposing injustice. Consider Psalm 94:16–17, and Romans 13:1–6. It would be breaking these biblical principles to allow criminals or terrorists to have undue influence or to usurp legitimate authorities.
Also, consider the rebuke in James 2:15–16. This could be seen as teaching that it is no good merely wishing people necessities like peace—we need to make some effort to provide it to them.
Not sure whether you’d have access to these hallowed pages on your “travels”, but if perchance you happen to do so, please let us know how we can best continue to pray for you in your current deployment. Being in Perth, right near Swanborne, there are a lot of army families near us with fathers/husbands/brothers in active service in afghanistan, and they are remembered in our prayer list, so please let us know how best to pray for you during your current stint.
I don’t intend to be disrespectful to the many faithful Christian people who have and do serve in our military forces, but it seems inimical to the Christian Gospel that I as a Christian should be engaged in learning how to kill people and the going out to kill them.
Jesus is the source of new life and I don’t see any record in Scriputre of him taking up arms. Indeed he rebukes his disciples who do when he is arrested in the Garden.
I avoided the draft for Vietnam, but had my number come up I would have been absolutely torn. I don’t know if I could have been a conscientious objecter - I am sure I would not have been able to hold together an argument at that time. But I know that I would have been greatly conflicted by it.
Some of you know that I work for an organisation that employs Christian Chaplains in Government schools, and I was surprised to discover the other day that is would be illegal for us to prohibit our staff from enlisting in the Army Reserve. I have no problem in them seeking to be chaplains in the Army Reserve, but it seems to me to be rather contradictory for these icons of God’s grace in our schools to be spending there weekends learning how many people a particular land mine is capable of killing.
I don’t think you’re being disrespectful in offering your opinion. That is, after all, what John B invited people to do in initiating this thread.
But I don’t find your arguments thus far very persuasive. There are lots of things that Jesus didn’t do that we are not necesaarily thereby prohibited from doing. And the occasion on which he rebukes his disciples for taking up arms is a very specific one, where their actions were in conflict with his chosen path to the cross. There is no warrant for drawing a general prohibition from his words on that occasion.
As to learning how to kill people, or about various methods of warfare (many of them admittedly horrific) the fact that we might find it difficult to reconcile such things with the gospel of grace is, I submit, simply a consequence of living in a fallen world in which we can never escape the reality of violence.
You are right, Bob, in making the observation that war is a consequence of us living in a fallen world, but for Christians to willingly participate in such fallenness is like continuing in sin so that grace may abound - saomething which Paul does not recommend. If I have the choice I will choose not to participate in this sign of our fallen world.
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