With trepidation, I pray that the budget tomorrow night, will provide a good economic strategy and hope for all Australians.

I pray that people may be able to access medical treatment, and not be priced out of it, or face long waiting periods to enter public hospitals.

Dear Father God, I pray that employment figures remain high, and do not deflate after this budget.

I pray that families will not be forced to leave their homes because of high interest rates due to high inflation.

PS: The following link, from The Australian, gives an inkling of the planned budget for tomorrow night. (they call it government by news leak)
Budget 2008

Ken,

Is that really a ‘prayer’ that we can pray ? Or is it a ‘wish list’ or a ‘hope list’ ? Is God involved in micro and macro economics ? Did He get a say at the decision making treasury tables over the past weeks and months ? If any economy goes wrong - is it really God’s fault ? ( And if He’s in control of the economy here in Australia, then why not in Zimbabwe etc ? ) And if an economy succeeds - does God automatically get the praise of all men ?

I really have questions about putting all this responsibility on God - when it is sinful men and women who are making the decisions.

Cheers, Kevin

And sometimes a dreadful economy is the best thing spiritually as it prompts many people to trust in God and not on their wealth and prosperity.
I suspect God’s primary concern is whether you trust in Jesus, and not your bank balance or employment status.

Kevin Goddard, you said:

“I really have questions about putting all this responsibility on God - when it is sinful men and women who are making the decisions.

Cheers, Kevin “

Good point Kevin, but it is God who placed these leaders in control of our Country. Whether their decisions are good or not, it is all part of God’s plan.

I guess my prayer is for any men women or children who will be badly affected by any bad decisions. If someone loses a job, a house etc. I am praying for the welfare of Australians primarily.

We are told over and over again (eg 1 Tim II 2) to pray for those in Authority over us. We need to do so to be faithful to our calling. And we need to pray for wisdom and guidance. And that is what this thread is about.

Thank you for reminding us of our duty.

One of my particular prayers is for wisdom and mercy (not justice- we all say we want justice but we really want mercy) for disabled people and their carers. Anyone see 4 Corners will know what I mean

Peter Kirsop - 13 May 2008 03:29 PM

One of my particular prayers is for wisdom and mercy (not justice- we all say we want justice but we really want mercy) for disabled people and their carers. Anyone see 4 Corners will know what I mean

I was at the Community Cabinet meeting in Penrith last month where the issues of caring for the disabled was raised. It was clear that this is a difficult subject, but one which is close to the hearts of both the Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers. I am hopeful that there will be some relief for families with disabled members tonight.

Ken said :

.... but it is God who placed these leaders in control of our Country. Whether their decisions are good or not, it is all part of God’s plan

I have long pondered on this. Yes, I am aware of what Romans 13 etc say. But I am looking at the particular issue of HOW governments in our democratic style of government are actually elected. And not just in “our country” (Australia has less than one third of one percent of the world’s population after all. ) - but universally.

For example, as a party needs a majority vote in a majority of seats to form government, how is this achieved ? Does God ‘dictate’ how people vote in order to achieve this outcome ? How does He then choose who to ‘influence’ their vote in order for them to change it so as to vote for God’s preferred choice ? Does He only work on the 10% who are swinging voters ? And how exactly does this work ? Some sort of subliminal influence by the Holy Spirit overcoming our own brains and reasonings - or do we become brainwashed to vote a certain way ? And those voters who only make their final choice when inside the voting booth - are they exercising their freewill or just ‘following orders’ from above ?

If this is so, then please tell the political parties and then they won’t need to squander 10’s of millions of $’s on political advertisements - or spin doctors.

And if God is at work in people’s lives in order to get them to vote a certain way, shouldn’t He be rather concentrating on influencing folk to turn to Him for personal salvation in Christ - which is of eternal importance ? Or how about getting folk to volunteer to help others etc.

Does God get involved in local council elections too - not just Federal and state - where do these ‘authorities’ end ?  Is God busily involved in the US primaries too ? In America they even elect their chief of police and other officials in some states ?  Where do we draw the line ?

And how about the ‘elections’ in certain countries overseas that are - well, just rigged. And what of self-elected genocidal dictatorships ? God at work again ? Do Christians in these countries just have to say, well God has set up these authorities, so that’s okay ?

Where exactly has God drawn the line ?

I agree with all the comments regarding how God’s concerns for us might be more concerned with our loyalty (or otherwise) to him rather than plans to give us all western wealth… yet on the other hand, can’t help feeling like Marvin the paranoid android off Hitch-hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.

...forced to leave their homes because of high interest rates due to high inflation.

I pray that the 17 billion excess will be put into a national electric train, tram, and trolley bus system run on renewables — and forget the temporary short term inflation because it’s here to stay until we wean off oil.

But that’s just me. I only warned about these scenarios 4 years ago. Do you want me to sit in the corner and rust or just fall apart where I’m standing?

I think our prayer for the budget (having not looked at any commentary yet), if we are to pray for ourselves, should be something simple like “Dear God, thanks that we have a competent and non-corrupt politics & public service to manage our massive, massive wealth. Amen.”

Kevin Goddard said:

Ken said :
.... but it is God who placed these leaders in control of our Country. Whether their decisions are good or not, it is all part of God’s plan

I have long pondered on this. Yes, I am aware of what Romans 13 etc say. But I am looking at the particular issue of HOW governments in our democratic style of government are actually elected. And not just in “our country” (Australia has less than one third of one percent of the world’s population after all. ) - but universally.

Yes, Kevin, I am reminded that 48% of voters went for Howard in the last election. But the outcome was in favour of Rudd, and God is in control of everything....

I guess in New Testament days, people didnt have a choice as to who led them in politics or domestically.

And, in the Old Testament God did place bad governments in charge as a punishment, also, to unfaithful people etc. Sometime to teach people a lesson....... God has complete control in the end.

Ken,

My question still is “HOW are people deciding their votes” ? Is God dictating - or just directing - and , if so, HOW ?

With all the lovely mystery of the word “Sovereignty”. ;-)

But that’s invisible to us, so… back to how that 20 odd billion budget surplus....

does anyone know how bad the inflation would be if we pumped ALL that surplus into weaning off oil via electric trains, trams and trolley buses running on renewables, as opposed to say the inflation of oil hitting $300 a barrel in 5 years and us still being hooked on the stuff? Or worse, there only being half of the oil we use in about 10 years?

Anyone? Who’s got some street-cred in “the dismal science”?

Dave Lankshear - 14 May 2008 11:39 PM

… back to how that 20 odd billion budget surplus....
does anyone know how bad the inflation would be if we pumped ALL that surplus into weaning off oil via electric trains, trams and trolley buses running on renewables, as opposed to say the inflation of oil hitting $300 a barrel in 5 years and us still being hooked on the stuff?

Dave,

$20b (b is for billion) is about 2% of total spending in the country (GDP is about $1trillion).

Inflation has two drivers:

Firstly the demand side, where buyers force up the price of scarce items by auctioning up what they are willing to pay, and,

Secondly the supply side, where sellers would rather withdraw from the market then accept the low price being offered.

It does not matter which one happens first because the other one is soon to follow. The issue then becomes one of inflationery expectations. Those expectations will effect the timing of major purchasing decisions (house, car etc) and the next round of wage negotiations we have with our bosses.

Australia’s inflation has been driven by more of us having more money then ever before in Australian history and 24 out of 25 of us who want to work working. It has been demand driven. The Feds sucking $20b out of the system has not had the effect of you and me and the State governments and investment pressures on putting prices up.

And this inflation has been lumpy. Imports (generally fun stuff like cars and Ipods) are cheaper due to the higher aussie dollar. Domestic holiday destinations have come down in price as Bali, Fiji and Hawaii have benefitted from the aussie.

The $20b will effect inflation by joining in the auction for goods & services (including services from people in wages) and that would lead to higher expectations. Other things being equal, assuming it all goes on paying people (because there would be no net increase in materials being used - just the transfer from one use to another) the immediate effect would be a 5% bump in all wages that would lead to an expectation hit of another 4% on CPI (assume some is saved). That one-off hit would take about 4 years to dissipate from CPI as expectations come back down.

So CPI to 8% or 9%, back down to the RBA’s range by the mid 2010’s.

On oil approaching $300. The effect of oil tripling in recent years has been about 0.5% cumilative on CPI (less then bananas a few years age). Give it another 0.5% for tripling to $300.

So CPI to 4 1/2% or 5%, back down in a year or 2 to the RBA range.

Cheers,

James.

Trust that clears up the question, Dave.

On oil approaching $300. The effect of oil tripling in recent years has been about 0.5% cumilative on CPI (less then bananas a few years age). Give it another 0.5% for tripling to $300.

Nice summary James, especially on imports and our dollar rising against overseas producers.

One comment though: oil is the foundation of everything in the modern market, from our pesticides and fertilisers to transporting everything… basically, if it isn’t actually MADE from oil such as plastics, medicines, paints, varnishes, etc, it’s probably made using oil or at least transported by oil.

So I’d love to know how you calculated such a low CPI for oil because I think if CPI counters include the “oil component” in all other price rises, it would be a substantially larger piece of the pie.

EG: Food rising in price affecting 100 million people has in part been from an increased demand from the Chinese for meat (and grain to feed the livestock) and maybe in equal part due to pegging grain prices to fuel prices. It’s either corn for ethanol or corn for food, so let the haggling (and increased demand) begin!

I acknowledge that my fuel bill isn’t killing me, but that’s largely because most of our trouble is with the mortgage (which I fixed a year ago because the experts I read saw all this coming) and we do a lot of local stuff, like local schooling, and we work from home. I understand fuel is a real issue for people working in poorer suburbs in Sydney — see SMH article — so they might not agree that it is a mere .5% CPI. It seems the effects of peak oil, like global warming, affect the poor more.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add — the immortal summary of Rudd’s budget from my best man, Neil.

My verdict? 4 out of 10. Fail.