An older friend of mine was telling me that, while her husband likes church well enough, he finds the whole “coffee, cake and conversation” thing afterwards quite uncomfortable. Some of you (ladies especially) might find it hard to believe that guys could find our church morning teas and suppers quite threatening, but it’s true. I think of my own Dad, who I desperately wish would attend church regularly. But the thought of him walking around afterwards with a coffee in one hand, a biscuit in the other, looking for someone to chat to - that just ain’t gonna fly. And I’ve noticed lots of lone male visitors looking pretty lost after church is over.

What’s the solution. Ok, think of a BBQ - that’s a scenario where guys seem to relate to each other and feel comfortable. What’s the key thing? There is something for them to focus on - the BBQ. And while they are safely avoiding eye contact, they can chat.

How do we apply this to church? Well, I don’t like the answer much because it sounds so mega-church and sell-out. But here it is. A 42” inch LCD flat screen and Fox Sports, set up in the corner of the church. I’d say a fridge full of beer too, but we don’t want to be too worldly. Seriously, if you give the guys something to *do* after church, they will feel far more comfortable. Anyway, why is coffee and conversation somehow sanctified, while Fox Sports is not?

You reckon I’m joking? Nope, I’m not. But if you have any better suggestions, I would like to hear them. If your church has a 50/50 gender split, feel free to disregard this post…

Why not simply have a BBQ after church?

Every single week? Most morning churches I’ve attended end well before lunch, anyway. But I guess it could work if you had a good BBQ space on your church ground…

Craig, a monthly BBQ could be a good start. Last year the husband of one of our regular attenders started coming just to our BBQs, then slowly eased himself into coming to church those weeks as well.  We then got him to Introducing God where he got converted. He is now in my Biblestudy group and so keen and enthusiastic. He got his long resistant mum to church and has been working on his dad.... yes he has started by getting his dad along to our BBQ weeks and other mens social events like bowling, state of origin nights, etc.

I like the idea of the TV, but you could also use it to show something like the Christ Files or other well produced DVDs like that at morning tea that have a message too.

I think rather than looking for a universal technique that will work at every church
(ie BBQ, TV or whatever) is to read your target audience and work out what their interests are.
Maybe in some areas a barista would work better, or videos on parenting children, etc. Someone could park their sailing boat/drag racing car/ whatever outside the church as a conversation piece for the guys to talk about.

Yes, it’s horses for courses.

As Phil said on my blog - “Women relate face to face, men relate side by side.” I think we need to recognise that and respond intelligently…

I think part of the problem is the men in church.

It’s the responsibility of the men in church to look after the new men in church who are sitting up the back with their missus looking decidedly uncomfortable (when was the last time they sat down this long without a beer in their hand?).

You’re right: men tend to find it easier to relate over tasks rather than face-to-face, which is a bit too confrontational for guys.

But you don’t need something like a BBQ to produce tasks. Introduce yourself to a new guy in church, find out who he is, where he’s from. Then say, “Hey, I have to help put these chairs away, do you want to lend me a hand?”

He’ll probably be more than happy to have something physical to do!

Or (if he has kids), tell him the kids need to be supervised, and you can go out the front/back of church and, with your backs to the fence (in the way that men do) you can chat whilst making sure the kids aren’t running onto the road, etc.

You don’t need to set up an entire new program to cater to people who aren’t being looked after--just be creative and find what that new guy to church needs!

Remember: People, Not Programs (Peter Bolt’s Mission Minded mantra).

Some very good comments in this vital and topical thread, and I hope that I can add something, even if its not pratical. I have given the view before that IME men want to treat women like slaves, but women DO treat men like cattle.
That explains why many men at church coffee and cake occasions are nervous and shifty. They are are like frightened steers in the cattle yard, penned in and wanting to bolt.
Women build up mens egos to such an extent that they are like fragile mandarins (a def.--one who makes himself a high and inaccessible position) when exposed to reality. I’m afraid that there is no solution unless society (not just the church) is prepared to reexamine and talk truthfully about the roles of men and women in a changing world.

A typically bizarre comment from Doug

A comment from Craig S

Craig , maybe it’s a bizarre world.

Craig,

My job means I get to travel a bit around various churches - and I do think you are on to something.

It is a generalisation… but there are a lot of men looking lost ‘filling in time’ while waiting for their wives!

Andrew Cameron made a good point a few years ago that, in general, men hate being seen as incompetent at something - its why men hate going to the accountant, dentist, mechanic - and they’d rather tinker themselves than call in the expert tradesperson (there’s a whole lot of cultural baggage here about being strong, a provider etc)… perhaps one reason men who aren’t church ‘insiders’ don’t like chatting after church is they fear being caught out as lacking ‘competency’ in Bible knowledge etc.

However I have observed that…

* Men ‘catch up’ while do they pack up in churches that meet in school halls etc.
* Men ‘catch-up’ with coffee in hand while ‘watching’ the kids if the church has a playground.
* Men love to chat while being the barristas if the church has a couple of coffee machines… and then doing the washing up afterwards.

I think we could be more intentional about investing in some ‘toys’ for the boys that could then be utilised for the kingdom…

I wouldn’t go for ‘passive’ alternatives like TV/bar fridge.. better to invest in a basketball court

I like the idea of a big TV. We have a couple of them at church. In the youth area we also have a few pin ball, car racing, shoot em up machines and a air hockey table.
It makes for great fun with the kids after church and playing with other men.
Also I like the idea of a pool table, and a X Box in a big screen works fantastic where others can gather around encouraging the players.

Craig don’t you guys have a pub across the road where perhaps some of the guys could invite some of the other guys to go and play pool?

I agree with the issue about asking men to help, in general we love to help do stuff and it does work to ask guys to help do stuff. One church I know of in the USA reach out to the community and invited non believing men to help with the church / community working bees. They took on the job of cleaning up the neighborhood by cleaning the streets, painting front yard fences and houses, cleaning the gutters out - mowing lawns etc.
Many of the houses they painted were those of the men involved and their friends and so the numbers of male conversion grew radically within the area including their families.

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM........BBQ

Slightly tangential article in SMH today.

It is about bucks parties in these modern times.

One part states:

All the men I spoke to said it was important that bucks’ days remain all male. “You do act differently in an all-male environment,” said one, who nominated paintball as his favourite bucks activity. “You can’t have girls there.”

With the disappearance of men-only clubs and the increasingly feminised workplaces, there’s fewer places where men can hang out with other men.

Could this be helpful (the insight, not the bucks party!)?

Boo!

Just came in to scare you all.

Am probably just testing the waters to see how quickly a post from a female can shut a thread down just by posting once in a men’s topic. Its happened before. ;-)

If the thread keeps going I might contribute something more useful next time! Maybe tomorrow.

Heather.

Haha, look forward to it Heather! :)

For my 2c on the topic of after church coffee & chat or whatever, my suspicion is men don’t like it because they find it incredibly boring!

It’s your weekend, you want to relax, you’ve probably just sat through an hour and half of wishy washy blah on a Sunday morning, and now you’re expected to stand around and feign interest in people you spend 5 mins talking to every other week? Who cares?

Men start putting chairs away not because they’re socially inept drones, but because they’re bored and are trying to do something productive instead of standing around doing nothing waiting for the missus to finishing chatting to whoever so they can get out of there, get back home, change back into something comfortable and relax.

Fair enough too I say - shallow small-talk is not something most men to my mind would enjoy, it’s something they may tolerate or endure with varying degrees of success, but honestly, what’s running through their heads other than “Leave leave leave leave leave leave leave leave...”?

If we want more men to come to church and give up half of their Sunday, and not just out of duty or habit, we need to make it worth their while.

---

On a slight tangent, I heard John Eldredge of “Wild at Heart” fame (which is for me probably one of the worst books I’ve never read) on Sunday Night Safran on the j’s the other week. The interview was an absolute train wreck (and Safran & Father Bob give the softest interviews ever), but be that as it may, Eldredge was (after much coaxing) talking about the camps they run for men, which I thought may have been interesting.

It turns out that these camps (from what Eldredge was saying) consisted of lectures, illustrations via some movie clips, and then men spending a lot of time journaling and contemplating their lives alone, and sometimes having a bit of a sob. Huh? That is the “recovery of the masculine soul” from a church that’s too feminine? Gimme a break..

Anyway just thought I’d share that :P