I have a Catholic friend.

She is an overseas student from Europe; and I have gotten to know her well over the last 12 months. It has been interesting to talk with her about the Bible, as well as her experiences in Australia.

What she said recently disturbed me though, which is this: that all but two Anglicans she had met (I being one of them) had left her with a bitter taste in her mouth about Anglicans.

It seems that she has received a litany along these lines: you’re not saved by works, Mary is neither mediatrix nor redemptrix, the Catholic church is sinful (witness all C. 16th excesses), The Pope is the Anti-Christ, The Bible has authority over Tradition, and here is why Doctrine X of the Catholic church is not biblical.

The disturbing fact is this: that not a single one of these would-be evangelists stopped to find out where she stood on a single one of these issues. In fact, she accepts not a whit.

If they had stopped to ask, they would find out that she was a Bible-believing Christian, and that she accepts Jesus Christ as her Lord and Saviour. She reads her Bible, and knows it as well as any 21-year-old I’ve met (I’ve never personally met Calvin!). They would find a complex and nuanced understanding of the relationship between grace and works, salvation and repentance and Christian living. She respects but does not worship Mary, nor the Pope. She accepts the Bible as the Word of God, over and above any doctrine of the denomination she belongs to. She is the most evangelical Catholic I have ever met.

I am saddened by this: that not a single one of my Anglican brethren stopped to understand the Catholic they were evangelising. Not a single one sought to understand the person living behind the stereotype. Not a single one wanted to know which particular Catholic doctrines she believed before bashing all of them in general.

And so the deep, intelligent and biblically-based discussions we used to have are on hiatus, while she pauses to understand why the Anglicans have caused so much hurt.

Have we given ourselves this reputation? Have we memorised Two Ways to Live and every argument in Nothing in My Hand I Bring, without remembering the person in “personal evangelism”?

Will this be a common story during World Youth Day?

G’day Haoran,
I’m sorry to hear about your friend. But I’m even more sorry to say that this isn’t an isolated incident. I’m chuffed that people are out there telling others about Jesus. It upsets me though that the strategy usually employed in personal evangelism is aggressive entrapment. You ask a person about Jesus and then wait until they say something wrong (in your case, something as simple as ‘Im Catholic), and then you proceed to tear them apart and show how illogical they are. What you are really hoping for is for them to say something that you have heard smacked down before, because then it will be easier to argue with them. If they reject you, you give yourself a pat on the back, and feel a little gut wrench as to why people wont accept Jesus. There is this attitude of ‘us versus them’ rather than ‘you and me under God’.
The only solution I can see is genuinely wanting to share Jesus with actual people, who have actual thoughts,and actual lives (as slow, messy and weak as that is).

What’s a girl like that doing in the catholic church? Although I know an evangelical could fellowship with catholics… however they’d have to have very strong reasons to, more than anyone I know would have. So what sort of values does she consider more important than anyone I know?

What’s a girl like that doing in the catholic church? Although I know an evangelical could fellowship with catholics… however they’d have to have very strong reasons to, more than anyone I know would have. So what sort of values does she consider more important than anyone I know?

Hi Danni, Haoran makes it clear

She is an overseas student from Europe; and I have gotten to know her well over the last 12 months. It has been interesting to talk with her about the Bible, as well as her experiences in Australia.

Depending what part of Europe she is from - she most likely has no choice but to be Catholic...as there is little evangelical witness and opportunity in those areas.
The question to ask is are we saved because we believe in justification by faith, or are we saved through justification by faith? If its the latter then there is room to breathe and believe that even catholics and others from other denominations can be saved!

I’m sorry to hear about your friends experience Haoran.

I think that may reflect they way we are taught to evangelise to catholic, muslims and pagan religions. Its almost like a three point sermon. ‘You are wrong because of ponit 1,2,3’. However, the best way to evalgelise is to listen first. Listen to what they believe first and even ask them what they belive. My farther in-law is catholic too and I leant not to point out the problems in their religion because they will just point out the problems in yours and that will just end up in an argument. Instead I found it helpful just to ask him why he does the things he does and bring out the bible when you can.

I agree Sheldon having myself been raised Catholic. The evangelical friends whom I respected were the ones willing to listen more than talk to me. And it was largely by my observation (especially in Bible study) that I learned what the Bible truly said and ultimately what God was saying to me. Patience is the key. And also finding common ground. Start the conversation with what you do agree on, listen more than talk and pray pray pray!

That should be the emphasis of every personal evangelistic encounter. Also I think a positive Gospel message is better than a negative one. By this I mean that we proclaim what the Gospel is instead of tearing down what the Gospel isn’t.

So when talking to Mormons or JW’s or any one else we can start by making the statement, “Hey isn’t it great that through Christ we are forgiven” and interact from there.

I learn’ t this lesson by accident one day when some Mormon’s knocked on our door and I said this to them. Through engaging with each other we found out that we have different views as to what this meant and a Bible discussion followed as to what the Bible said about it…

I think the same idea can be used for pastoral skills. Listen to the person’s problem and then ask, ‘How may I serve you?’. After all we are to have the nature of a servant just like Christ did! To many times Christians think that by rattling off a couple of Bible verses isn’t gonna make someone feel better especialy if they have heard a particular verse for the hundrenth time that day.

Hi everyone,

A good biblical principle for these situations is:

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
[1 Peter 3:15-16, TNIV translation, my bold]

A conceptual issue to be aware of is:
Many Roman Catholics may use words such as grace, justification and possibly faith in a different sense to the way you use those words.
This is an important point to be aware of in conversations.

An important reality check is:
Roman Catholicism is a very broad church, often even within one parish, in a way that is probably foreign to the experience of many SydAngs.
So it is important that you ask what the person actually believes rather than assume you already know.

Having said that, I should note that Ray Galea’s book Nothing In My Hand I Bring and Dominic Steele’s Ideas that Changed the World are both very useful in addressing “typical” RC beliefs.

It is just that many RCs are not entirely “typical” ..... and that includes the “evangelical” European woman mentioned at the start of this thread.

Undeserved favour and peace,
Terry

Depending what part of Europe she is from - she most likely has no choice but to be Catholic...as there is little evangelical witness and opportunity in those areas.

Hmm perhaps, though I would have thought there’d be some evangelical presence throughout most of Europe.

Hmm perhaps, though I would have thought there’d be some evangelical presence throughout most of Europe.

It depends on where in Europe you go. And I wonder what you mean by the term “some” I pray for some missionaries over in France and there is very little evangelical presence there.
There are a lot of cultural issues to consider as well in Europe - such as pressure to stay in the cultural religion, that if you change religion, denomination you betray the family.
I wonder if Germany would have a high percentage of evangelical witness or would it be Lutheran?
Did you know there is a huge difference between how Luther thought of and preached about the doctrine of “Justification of faith” and the way evangelicals understand it?
Many Roman Catholics today would be closer in understanding to Luther’s understanding of the term than what they are to the belief of the Catholic church in Luther’s day.

I think a lot of evangelicals believe that most Catholics (and people from other denominations)know exactly what evangelicals (Calvinists) believe and how it differs from their beliefs. And that they knowingly choose to stay outside evangelicalism.
And so we approach these people with the sense that they are evil for believing what they do and we preach against them instead of preaching the Gospel.

Craig Bennett - 03 April 2008 07:51 PM

I think a lot of evangelicals believe that most Catholics (and people from other denominations)know exactly what evangelicals (Calvinists) believe and how it differs from their beliefs. And that they knowingly choose to stay outside evangelicalism.

From what I read Craig, the majority of evangelicals are much more Arminian leaning than Reformed. JI Packer, for example, suggests that most Anglicans in this day and age could not be classed as reformed.

Hi Jeff. I agree with you. I placed “Calvinists” in italics for most likely they would be the most or one of the most aggressive groups towards the Catholics and Orthodox. Though in hind site Legalistic Fundamentalists would be a much more aggressive group.

What’s a legalistic fundamentalist?

Janice Money - 03 April 2008 10:51 PM

What’s a legalistic fundamentalist?

As a guess, perhaps it’s someone who rabidly follows the thought of Shang Yang.

I thought like you once, but through the Grace of God he showed me that the Catholic Church, headed on earth by the successor of ST Peter, is his true Church.

Why did I leave Evangelicalism...because it is doctrinal chaos, due to the Unbiblical doctrine of Scripture alone, ignoring the need for an interpretating Church ( !Tim 3 :15)

The total lack of historical continuity and consistency throughout the centuries of evangelical doctrine.

The shock of finding that the first Christians believed doctrines , consistently taught by the Catholic Church, but denied by evangelicals. they can’t agree on key doctrines and consign solemn commands of Jeus Christ to secondaary issues, e.g. baptism

Indeed denial of baptismal regeneration and the real presence in the Eucharist are cited by early persons like justin Martyr as prrof of heresy.

God Bless you and open your eyes. For there is a way that seemeth right unto a man, and the end thereof is death