Recently I was loaned by a close Sydney Anglican friend of mine a copy of Ray Galea’s book: Nothing in my hand I bring.

The book prompted me to write a series of notes regarding the book while better understanding and clarifying my own RC faith. I have no formal qualifications in the Catholic faith but I did the best I could with my knowledge.

I believe this discussion is important especially considering the upcoming World Youth Day.

If anyone would like a copy of my notes just send me a message with your email address (to maintain privacy), and I’ll be happy to send them to you

- Steve

Hmmm
Sounds interesting young Steve.

Stephen Varney - 22 January 2008 06:51 PM

I believe this discussion is important especially considering the upcoming World Youth Day.

If anyone would like a copy of my notes just send me a message with your email address (to maintain privacy), and I’ll be happy to send them to you

- Steve

Hi Steve,

I have recently read this book also. I found Ray’s approach very gentle and honest. Since I have very limited knowledge of Roman Catholicism its hard to critique its accuracy, however given the fact that this is the account of Ray’s own journey as a Catholic and with the numerous references I’d be pretty confident it its truth.

Especially with World Youth Day comming, I’d be very interested in your perceptions from a Catholic point of view. Did you follow up on the references?

I’d hope that on these forums you’d not be shot down for honest opinion and inquiry.

Dear Lars,

In general I found the book to be accurate in any of its references to the Catholic faith. Having said this it was quite often the parts of the book where there was no references and the authors opinion/hearsay was the point of argument that I objected to.

Other reasons for me writing the commentary was the book’s lack of objectivity regarding biblical translations, early christian church beliefs, and minimal details on Catholic doctrine.The authors logic in some cases was quite flawed. For example paraphrasing a lot from Galea; God hates idolatry; idolatry can be the worship of an inanimate object; catholics say the Eucharist is not an inanimate object; therefore catholics are guilty of idolatry. what??? If the statement was made: Protestants say the Eucharist is an inanimate object, that would make sense.

The sub-heading on the cover ‘Understanding the differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant beliefs’ along with the note on the back cover gives the impression that the book is very objective. As I have stated this is far from the case. A more suitable sub-heading would have been: ‘Understanding Protestant objections to Roman Catholic beliefs.’

If you want to understand the Catholic faith read some catholic apologetics.Often they are in short concise form. Don’t read protestant opinion to understand, you won’t get the full story

This is not at all a personal attack on Ray, he seems like a really nice bloke. He was the first person I send the commentary to, in honestf politeness.

In what sense do you mean shot down for opinion and inquiry?

-Steve

Hi Steve.
I think Lars means that sometimes we evangelicals can be too quick on the trigger.

Hi Steve,
I too am just finishing reading Galea’s new book. I, like Galea, grew up in the Catholic church and was a practising Roman Catholic until 4 years ago.
I think it’s great that you took the time to read the book that your friend lent you and that it has sparked some more thought.
From what I can see, I believe Galea had 2 aims in writing this book.
One, was to help Protestants understand what it was like for Galea to be taught the Catholic doctrine from infanthood - and then to over time question the differences between the Catholic doctrine and those his Protestant friends held to.
The second, to try and get alongside Catholic’s as someone who has experienced belonging to the Catholic church and can speak from his own personal experience.
In both aims, I think Galea wanted to make it personal from his own experience. Thus, he did not choose to go into early Christian church beliefs etc.
I found myself many times relating to Galea’s experiences, there were some I did not relate to, but again, I believe Galea wanted to share his story in full as much as he could.
Thus, the objection I have to sub-heading the book ‘Understanding Protestant objections to Roman Catholic beliefs’ is that this inhibits his second aim.
The word ‘objection’ immediately strikes me as defensive.
When I held to the Catholic doctrine, protestant friends of mine used to question me about my understanding of the Bible. I remember many times putting up my defences and accusing them of disrespecting not only what I believed but also feeling personally attacked, and also feeling a personal attack on my family who had raised me in the Catholic church.
Galea speaks passionately about his own experience because being Catholic in my experience was more than just a faith, it was cultural. And so to reject the Catholic church, was also to reject my family.
I agree with you, that reading Catholic apologetics is very helpful, but as humans we also like to be understood. And so I think it is highly valuable to also speak and listen from an experiencial point of view. I know that in my case I had to get past feeling personally attacked and be willing to read the Bible for myself, not to just assume that what I had been taught and grown up with was accurate.
I’m interested in hearing your thoughts?
Christine

Hi Christine,

Welcome to these forums.

You will find there are a number of contributors here who grew up in a Roman Catholic environment.

Some of them even went on to become ....Sydney Anglicans!!??
although I avoided that particular fate .... 8-)

Grace & peace,
Terry

Thanks Christine for the post

I understand your point on Ray trying to make it a personal journey and I could see elemets of that. The trouble I have with it is it’s not just a book about a personal journey to protestant thinking. I believe that it is presented and marketed (comments from the lectern in a syd ang church) as an objective comparison of the two faiths which it is not.

Christine Semple - 30 January 2008 01:36 PM

Thus, the objection I have to sub-heading the book ‘Understanding Protestant objections to Roman Catholic beliefs’ is that this inhibits his second aim.
The word ‘objection’ immediately strikes me as defensive.

Ok fair enough but you get my point right? Perhaps ‘A former Catholic’s journey into the protestant faith’.

As for me I never feel personally attacked by protestants questioning me and my catholic faith, in fact I quite often know more about their own church’s doctrine than they do.

Probably my biggest objection to the book is, I see it only breeding more EP’s that are not only ignorant to the RC faith but thinking they know all about the RC faith. When you only tell part of the story you distort the truth, and start bordering on propaganda. For example when a EP uses a bible verse to make a point in comparison to RC doctrine without giving the RC explination of the verse, you make out that the RC have no answer to it. Thats just making people more ignorant.

Like I’ve been trying to point out I wouldn’t even be posting this unless the book was under the diguise of being an objective comparison.

I don’t want my friend whom lent me the book to read it and think she’s got the whole story. Her situtation is similar coming from a nominal RC family and now EP. But she would have never known the fullness of the Catholic faith and I think this book is very miss-leading for her.

I’m a little concerned too that after reading Ray’s book, any other teaching given by him to future leaders of the Anglican church, will result in them being misinformed on the RC faith.
http://your.sydneyanglicans.net/sydneystories/kylc_2008_story/
From reading the book it appears as though Ray is not even close to an authority on Catholic doctrine.

This is not me on an anti-EP rant. Peter Jensen gave a talk on ‘Why I’m not a Catholic’ and I though it was pretty fair in the way he presented it. Obviously it had an EP spin on it but it was never implied to be any different. He gave logical conclusions and pointed out the assumptions made to reach those conclusions. Of corse I didn’t agree with everything but I thought it was fair in the context.

Anyway let my know if you want the notes. You can decided for yourself wether the book is fair or not.

Cheers

Steve

Hi Christine, while I’m not from Catholic upbringing, one of my ballet friends is…

Christine Semple - 30 January 2008 01:36 PM

When I held to the Catholic doctrine, protestant friends of mine used to question me about my understanding of the Bible. I remember many times putting up my defences and accusing them of disrespecting not only what I believed but also feeling personally attacked, and also feeling a personal attack on my family who had raised me in the Catholic church.

My aforementioned friend has expressed some of the same feelings - she’d been attending a Sydney Anglican church frequently (NOT the same as my morning church) until recently...she told me late last year that she felt uncomfortable with the disparaging attitudes of some people in her church towards the Catholic faith.

So uncomfortable that she’s been looking for another church…

TZ.

My aforementioned friend has expressed some of the same feelings - she’d been attending a Sydney Anglican church frequently (NOT the same as my morning church) until recently...she told me late last year that she felt uncomfortable with the disparaging attitudes of some people in her church towards the Catholic faith.

So uncomfortable that she’s been looking for another church…

There’s someone at our church who heard Ray Galea speak about Roman Catholicism so gently, that they are now attending Ray’s Church (although an Anglican to start with anyway).
Gill.

I was so encouraged by Ray Galea’s book, especially after growing up on the South Coast surrounded by Catholics (both Anglo and Italian), that I have purchased a number of these and after much prayer, bitten the bullet and sent them to my Catholic friends.  I know I could loose some friendships out of this, but I love them too much to not try my utmost to share the truth about Jesus with every one of them.

will be praying for you as you have conversations with your friends Sharon, after they receive copies of the book.
Regards
Gill Evans

I appreciate that Gill.  A Catholic friend has sent me a reply detailing her stance on Christian things (quite firm), but still open to further discussion and suggesting we meet soon for coffee.  I’m just back from hols and need to digest the letter some more and pray for wisdom and guidance, before I embark on this with her.

Thanks Sharon

I think if Catholics had a better understanding of, say, the NT book of Hebrews, they might better understand how Jesus fulfills the Old Testament, and does away with the sacrifice of priests.

A good book to help them to understand God’s plan for saving mankind from sin by the blood of Jesus, and not reliance on sacrifices by priests; eg mass.

You’re right ken - it’s exactly this kind of thing I’m trying to address with my friends.  But it all has to be handled sensitively as many Catholics take discussion about what God’s plan is for their lives, through the sacrifice and resurrection of his son (and the fact that we can have a personal relationship with our wonderful God, through our Saviour - not requiring an intercessor) - they still often take it as a personal attack on their families and/or culture because these things are so intertwined with their belief system.  I’m married to a guy of Italian heritage and his extended family still struggle today with his choice to obey Jesus and not the Parish Priest. 
Prayer, prayer, prayer is the answer - God does all the changing in a persons heart.  We need to be there to support them when they make the move to trust in the blood of Jesus and not the Doctrine of man.

Sharon

As a convert from conservative non charismatic Evangelicalism I think anyone who reads Nothing in my hand I bring, they should read, “ Crossing the tIber “ and “ Upon this Rock “ by Stephen Ray