Back again.

We have to watch very carefully that we do not import events from one period of biblical theology into all areas.

An OT “Prophet” sometimes had predictions about the future, but does that mean Prophecy is always about predicting the future? I previously defined prophecy as a specific application of the gospel to a generation’s particular issues. However, 1 Corinthians 14 might be more general than that. While exhorting us to desire prophecy and clarity of communication, it says…

26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church; let them speak to themselves and to God.

So yes, there’s some “revelation” in there (whatever that means), but also a hymn, also someone who speaks another language and needs interpretation.

As Gordon said in one a Briefing bit,

Here, the sub-editor has completely misled us as to the true meaning of the 1 Corinthians 14:26-40. It is not about Christians. It is not about worship. It is not about Christians worshipping. It is about meeting together to speak plain, understandable words to each other about the gospel of God, in a way that brings honour to God.

(Cheers Gordon.)

Prophecy is not just about prediction. It’s about God’s message. Now that the bible is fulfilled and complete and is the “power of God for the salvation for those who believe”, aren’t I prophesying every time I tell my Scripture class that they will have to face God one day?

I still think you have confused both teaching and proclaiming the gospel with prophecy.

And once again, it doesn’t matter how we define prophecy. I was pointing out that the examples given in the New Testament such as warning of the famine & Paul being arrested, have a very strong element of prediction within them (& not simply saying that Jesus will come bacxk one day & you had better be ready).

By the way Dave, I have no idea why you announced to the world that you were Amil when responding to the comment on Acts 1:8. For a short time I thought you were changing your name, or declaring your allegience to a quasi-pyramid selling corporation. I wasn’t considering the differences between the post-mil, pre-mil, a-mil or pan-mil views. I was suggesting that Acts 1.8 gives a nice summary of where the message would go, fitting in the pattern of the book of Acts, but Paul reaching Rome (as nicely figurative as it is, & as nicely as that rounds off the book) didn’t totally fulfil the desire of our Lord to reach the ends of the earth.

[quote author="Dave Lankshear"]Prophecy is not just about prediction. It’s about God’s message. Now that the bible is fulfilled and complete and is the “power of God for the salvation for those who believe”, aren’t I prophesying every time I tell my Scripture class that they will have to face God one day?

No, I’m afraid not. You’re right to say that prophecy is not just about prediction, but I think this is a good definition: “prophecy is the reception and subsequent transmission of spontaneous, divinely originating revelation” (Grudem according to Carson). This definition encompasses all examples of prophecy (in the OT and the NT). It is fallacious to argue (and you may not be doing this Dave, but some do) that “prophecy is edifying, my words are edifying, so I am speaking a prophecy!”

Anyway, here is what I’ve written about this previously…

Hmm, maybe, but the verses I quote above bear careful reading. At the start of the chapter it’s clear prophecy v unclear tongues. Now when the rubber hits the road in the verses I quote above, the verse mentions “revelation” as one of a number of different activities that seem to come under the umbrella of “prophecy” if handled correctly.

I guess I have trouble because of “experience”. I’ve hung out with various charismatic people for a number of years, and can say I’ve never seen anything that really fits the bill. If anything, I’ve seen people “assuming” prophecy with all the right intentions but with catastrophic results.

EG: Some older friends of ours tried for decades to become pregnant. The couple finally conceived, and this certain charismatic person glowingly announced how they’d been at a conference and heard a prophecy from the presenter.

“Someone in the audience has a friend trying to get pregnant. They will conceive soon, and this pregnancy shall succeed.” This certain person glowingly told our friends that they had “claimed this prophecy for them.” In the second trimester the baby died. It still makes me angry for our friends and ashamed of this certain person who still has the arrogance or vagueness, I can’t work it out, to try pushing their “prophecies” down my throat. I’ve seen only bad come of “prophecy” sorry. I’d have more trouble understanding Christianity if modern “prophecy” were shown to be biblically expected and real. The moment I hear anyone say they think God is telling them something — in any means other than the bible — I start to cringe.

I sympathise with you & cringe with you.
But at the same time I have heard some absolutely heretical preaching, but I don’t assume that preaching is therefore invalid or not to be attempted, or not the same as the preaching in the Bible.
I have also seen some very UNloving acts done in the name of the love of Christ, but I don’t assume that love these days must be somehow different to what it was back then, using a theological argument that Jesus loved to the very end, & is the fullest expression of love, so therefore everything else is a poor imitation or not the valid thing. (Yes I know that is not what you are saying, but the logic is the same).

By the way Dave, thanks for admitting that your experiences have coloured your method of exegesis. That is a refreshing note sadly missing by many people.

What can I say? I’m a heart on sleeve kind of guy.

But the thing that still doesn’t sit right with me biblically is that the largest majority of NT commands on church priorities seems to be about preaching and teaching and prayer and serving each other. I don’t really read any other instruction on prophecy elsewhere, and don’t really know that much about what was assumed and how it worked in Corinthians. So I’m largely agnostic about what on earth the whole gifts passages mean.

There are too many questions.

If someone has a Revelation… what, is an Apostle visiting, or highly noted figure like Agabus? Or was it any Joe Bloggs? Prophecy does appear to include a greater variety of things than “revelation” as “revelation” is listed in amongst other more practical stuff listed under 1 Cor 14. And there’s something more BASIC that I am missing right now… nagging at the back of my brain. I’ll think of it at 2am and the depression dude I’ve been listening to (podcast recommended on the other thread) will be very cranky if he finds out I’m awake then! Then you’ll be in trouble! ;-)

What about 1 Thes 5:20? Once again no definition, but a warning not to treat prophecies with contempt… & the slightest possibility that doing so may quench the Holy Spirit (if verse 20 is an explanation or application of v19). But v21 reminds us to test everything.

Notice Dave that testing of the things we do accept as from God has some difficulty. This is magnified enormously when we are not sure if a prophecy comes from God!

I PREDICT THAT THIS THREAD WILL APPEAR IN THE DEAD HORSE FORUM! muwhwhwh

This great piece by John Woodhouse does not really answer the prophecy verses in question here, but it does do justice to the overwhelming case for us to be confident that we have everything we need in God’s word.

It’s a long read, but grab a decaf and go for it. (Too much real coffee after lunch can prevent sleep, promoting high cortizol levels, and contribute to depression.)

I’m off to have a nice Milo (not too strong) watch the idiot box for a few minutes (to forget some stressful decisions I’ve had to make in the last 24 hours), breath deeply, and hopefully sleep.

I have no problems in accepting the sufficiency of the scriptures for our salvation. I have no problems in accepting that the Bible is the word of God. In fact, because the Bible says a gift of the spirit is prophecy (just as marriage or singleness or administration or teaching are gifts of the Spirit) I believe that if someone says they have a message, then they need to be heard & tested.
Interestingly, people will get to know who can give a reasonable message, & who they will become suspicious of… they know them by their fruits (just as they know what sort of preacher a person may be, & whether to squeal in excited anticipation or groan in frustration when they discover who will preach at the service). But if no-one has a message, so what! If someone does, let’s hear it, but test it.

Handled politely & in love by caring leadership, the urge to stand up & prophesy by those who just need to be centres of attention, will ease, without the need to ban prophesying. I haven’t been approached by anyone with a needy prophecy for a few years now, except for Sheldon.

Sheldon,
thank you for your prediction. I notice that you included some words in a foreign tongue after the initial sentence. Does anyone know what they mean, otherwise Sheldon you will have to be quiet.

Sheldon,
thank you for your prediction. I notice that you included some words in a foreign tongue after the initial sentence. Does anyone know what they mean

muwhwhwh is the actual sound Mr Ed makes when the crew put peanut butter on his teeth to make him appear to speak.
The translation is usually something like

WIL .... BURR

Thank you David,
& it is appropriate yet sad that as Mr Ed is now a dead horse, that that chilling reminder should come at the end of a comment about dead horse forums.

& no-one can talk to a horse of course, unlesss of course, the horse, of course, is the famous Mr Ed. Go right to the source and ask the horse, he’ll give you the ....  ah memories!

But it is appropriate that we reminisce a touch here, because Mr Ed’s man Wilbur did the stupid thing of concentrating on the spectacular (out in the barn every night with his talkin horse), instead of staying with the one he had a covenant with, his lovely long-suffering wife. It reminds me of those who enter the New Covenant, then get so fascinated by the extra things, that it seems that they neglect the most important & most beautiful attraction of our faith… our gracious Lord of course.

Sheldon,
thank you for your prediction. I notice that you included some words in a foreign tongue after the initial sentence. Does anyone know what they mean

It was my evil laugh! MUWAHWAH

G’day Robert.

Handled politely & in love by caring leadership, the urge to stand up & prophesy by those who just need to be centres of attention, will ease, without the need to ban prophesying. I haven’t been approached by anyone with a needy prophecy for a few years now, except for Sheldon.

A few years ago a minister said to me, “That he looked forward to the day when someone will give a prophecy in his church”. My reply to him was, “That it probably will not happen, until you teach on the subject and give the congregation permission to do so, putting in place some guidlines for the giving and handling of it.”

Coming from the position of a senior minister, what guidlines have you instituted in your church to handle prophecy, and whether the congregation is encouraged, discouraged to prophesy, or it is one of those things that if it happens it happens?