I’ve been away from these forums for a little while now… (when did they introduce character limits?) but thought a discussion on the series on young people, and issues raised by the NCLS might have been started already.

While I admire the input and discussion from these surveys by Anglican Media, I wonder if we are missing some bigger issues which would shape any analysis.

For example if our analysis of the statistics presented in the southern cross began by saying that over a quarter of churchgoing teenagers and young adults with Sydney Anglican parents (27.7%), go to a different church (as opposed to congregation) to their parents, the consideration of the results will be different and perhaps more helpful.

This stat may make us wonder about how many people (in general here I would suggest older adults) are not satisfied with the youth and young adult programs at their church because their church doesn’t really have one or they have placed crazy high expectations on the one that is there that it will bring in thousands of kids from the local area.

I guess this is just a discussion starter at the moment, but I wonder if this stat means a little bit more than the broader “satisfaction with activities” ratings.

I agree a discussion needs to happen regarding how the church prepares people to move past school and uni into work, but I wonder if we are willing to look at the consequences of the bigger picture and not make hysterical claims about stats that are perhaps misleading.

Peter Denham - 01 July 2007 03:13 PM

I’ve been away from these forums for a little while now… (when did they introduce character limits?) but thought a discussion on the series on young people, and issues raised by the NCLS might have been started already.

While I admire the input and discussion from these surveys by Anglican Media, I wonder if we are missing some bigger issues which would shape any analysis.

For example if our analysis of the statistics presented in the southern cross began by saying that over a quarter of churchgoing teenagers and young adults with Sydney Anglican parents (27.7%), go to a different church (as opposed to congregation) to their parents, the consideration of the results will be different and perhaps more helpful.

Hi Peter,
They introduced the “character limits” to try to keep undesirables like me out -
but unfortunately it isn’t working....

From what I could see, the Southern Cross web version article had just one statistic for two categories:

Southern Cross [Jeremy] said:
Stuart’s experience at Gymea Anglican is repeated many times across the country. The latest National Church Life Survey (NCLS) found that 40 per cent of church-goers’ children do not go to church. Despite young adult retention rates improving amongst Sydney Anglicans, about one in three children of Sydney Anglican attendees does not attend any church.

The article indicates the 40% figure is “across the country” but doesn’t indicate if this is a national Anglican, national Protestant or national “all denominations figure”.

I appreciate how tough the journalism profession is and a don’t want to knock Jeremy’s great work.
However, for this sort of article I do feel that includng a table of the relevant statistics (or a link to them) would allow many of us to better understand what the NCLS is indicating and contribute to a discussion of the issues.

In the NCLS Results “Profile” that local churches receive the relevant page has results for these item, locally and for the region (diocese?):

Young People (aged 15-19) at your church:
Young people who have been attending 5 years or more X%
Young people who have been attending less than 5 years X%

Church attendance pattern of attenders’ children:
Aged 0-14
Still attend this church X%
Attend elsewhere X%
Do not attend any church X%
Aged 15 and over
Still attend this church X%
Attend elsewhere X%
Do not attend any church X%

Satisfaction with what is offered here for young people:
All attenders satisfied with what is offered here for:
Children under 12 years X%
Youth aged 12-18 years X%
Young adults X%
15-18 year old attenders satisfied with activities offered X%
19-25 year old attenders satisfied with activities offered X%

If we had a linked table of these figures for SydAng and some national comparison figures, I think that would help with informed discussion.

Grace & peace,

Terry

.

Here’s a few thoughts that have no relationship to statistics. Just some random thoughts.

I have read on a UK website that one reason young adults don’t click with church these days because people are getting married later, and having kids later. In previous years (like a couple of decades ago) there were lots of young adults with children at 20, 21, 22, 23, 24. These young adults would be “captured” by church programs aimed at families (e.g. playgroups, Sunday School picnics etc).

My personal observation of my local area is that there is not much employment for young people here and so they travel to the big smoke to seek employment. That takes them away from my local church.

My other personal observation is that many young adults go into university and have to relocate to manage their needs to attend lectures.

In both instances if the young adult used to go to church, it is hard for them to take the brave step to enter into another church fellowship that is foreign to them.

If they are not Christians, then there is very little to entice them into the church. I guess you aren’t really attracted to attend Youth Groups once you turn 20 or 21. Youth Groups are by then full of “kids”.

No solutions just thoughts.

cheers,
Heather.

In both instances if the young adult used to go to church, it is hard for them to take the brave step to enter into another church fellowship that is foreign to them.

Hi Heather,

And that is where the Campus Christian organisations come into play. They become the churches on campus - ‘where two or three are gathered in my name’ groups. PLus there are churches whose aim includes uni students - say Barny’e near Sydney Uni and St Matthias near UNSW. There are others as well.

Must dash - cheers, Kevin

Kevin,
the campus organisations do a great job for young people who go to university. But that is a fraction of even young people who go on to post school study. Not to mention those who go straight into the workforce - the majority.

Is going to a different church from your parents necessarily a bad thing? I would imagine that many people change churches solely for the reason that their parents go.

Homogeneous campus congregations might be extremely good while people are at University and as long as they continue living near the church after they finish their degree. However, I’ve seen a number of people whose first job after graduation took them away from their church and they’ve struggled to fit into a church whose age spread is non-homogeneous. A number to the point that they no longer attend church.

The “average” church most certainly needs to get their ministry to younger adults right. Also, I think the leaders of the more homogeneous University based churches need to work at preparing their people for a life of Christian service amongst people who are not all exactly like them.

However, for this sort of article I do feel that includng a table of the relevant statistics (or a link to them) would allow many of us to better understand what the NCLS is indicating and contribute to a discussion of the issues.

There were charts included with the original print version. They must have been lost in transferring the article online.

I’ll dig them up for you.

Church attendance patterns of attender’s children (over 15)

Sydney Anglican 2006

Still attend this church 47%
attend elsewhere 19%
do not attend church 35%

Sydney Anglican 2001

Still attend this church 44%
attend elsewhere 15%
do not attend church 38%

All Anglican 2006

Still attend this church 40%
attend elsewhere 16%
do not attend church 44%

to me these figures show too little movement to make any pronouncements re strong shifts anywhere - if ‘still attending’ was down from 44% in 01 to, say, 30% in 06 then yes, break out the violins.

To the contrary, they show slight improvement.

What I was trying to say in the article was that despite this slight improvement its not time to break out the champagne because around a third of our young adults are still ceasing to attend church at all.

And BTW I agree with Sandeman that student ministry can not be the only string in our bow because most kids don’t go to uni.

And before anyone asks.. yes I know the 2001 Syd Ang figures don’t add up to 100%.. but that’s what I was given by NCLS. I did query that with researchers.
My understanding is that some distortion has occured with rounding off the %

That said, we know that young adult retention has increased from seperate demographic data.

Jeremy Halcrow - 21 August 2007 12:39 PM

What I was trying to say in the article was that despite this slight improvement its not time to break out the champagne because around a third of our young adults are still ceasing to attend church at all.

Also, given the general decline in church attendance which many attribute to shrinking ‘nominalism’, a small but relative rise in youth retention might be expected.

Jeremy,
do we have the overall picture for Sydney Anglican attendence from NCLS?

Thanks for those figures Jeremy.

Another relevant stat in this area is the Young Adult Retention that NCLS measures as a percentage of the total attendees in the parish/diocese.

I understand the NCLS 2006 figures were:

Sydney Anglican 2006:
Young People (aged 15-19) at your church (=diocese):

Young people who have been attending 5 years or more 4%
Young people who have been attending less than 5 years 4%

Grace and peace,

Terry

What about Kids whose parents don’t go to church?

I was one of these. I have to note from my old youth group that the following occurred. Most of the boys remianed involved in Christian things as adults, and as far as the girls go - most drifted away as adults.