Have a tolerant secular humanist xmas, ok? 
24 December 2003 11:51pm
3638 posts
  [ Ignore ]

The alternative title for this thread was “Get your stinkin’ hands off of our message!” but I preferred the above.

Anyway, this is prob the first Christmas I’ve really paid attention to the “message” that gets bandied about this time of year. Honestly, for a society that prides itself on tolerance of all faiths, its scientific rightness, and political correctness, it sure makes a hash of representing even the basic tenets of the Christian Christmas message, instead deferring to a lot of sentimental, traditionalist dogma, which reeks of irony to me.

Today’s SMH Op-ed had me fuming over my oats:

The memory of Christmas

In A History of Christianity, the former Regius Professor of Modern History at Cambridge University, Owen Chadwick, reminds us that Christmas as we now know it was originally a combination of three distinct elements. These, he writes, were “the junketings of the Roman crowd trying to relieve the gloom of winter; the Roman cult of the sun and its light; and, at the heart, the memory of a birth in a manger in the Palestinian town of Bethlehem”. At this time of year, Christians recall the last of these but they do so amid the distractions of the modern-day equivalents of the other two (merry-making and the commercialised myth of Santa Claus). Often those distractions are so powerful that it seems the third element - the memory - is struggling to stay alive.

There is nothing new in this. The Gospels, of course, give no indication of the date of the birth of Jesus beyond Luke’s reference to it being “when Cyrenius was governor of Syria” and Matthew saying that it occurred before the death of Herod (in 4BC). The earliest Christians do not seem to have placed much emphasis on the birth of Jesus as an important feast - Easter was the focus of their religious calendar - and its celebration on December 25 is first attested in Rome in AD336. The day set aside for Christmas was most likely chosen to oppose a Roman feast that coincided with the winter solstice. This feast, says Chadwick, was observed by the Romans with “drunkenness and riot” and although the church sought to bring a more purposeful meaning to these festivities, Christians - then, as now - generally ignored appeals from their religious leaders not to drink and eat to excess in the manner of their non-Christian neighbours.

Keeping alive the memory of that birth in Bethlehem, however, can be tricky for other reasons. If Christmas is the account of how God became incarnate in human affairs, then it is likely to take forms as diverse and as parochial as the people who do the recounting. The original birth narratives in the gospels are only two in number, they are sketchy at best and then often contradictory. This has encouraged a certain freedom of imagination in filling in the gaps so that the Christmas story that has evolved over the centuries reflects the adaptations and embellishments of virtually every culture that has embraced it.

Only after Matthew wrote his gospel was it decided that the “wise men” he refers to were three in number (since they bore three gifts, of gold, frankincense and myrrh), that they must be all kings (since the psalms mention three kings bearing gifts), and that their names were Caspar, Melchior and Balthasar. The now familiar nativity scene also includes the ox and the ass, of which the Bible makes no reference. When Christianity reached northern Europe, snow was introduced into the Christmas landscape. German folklore added the Christmas tree to the season’s symbolism and the Dutch added “Sinterklaus” (hence Santa Claus) or Father Christmas, who was modelled on the 4th-century bishop of Myra in Lycia, St Nicholas.

But beneath all these accoutrements is the message carried by the story, most forcefully articulated in the opening of John’s gospel: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.” The spirit of God, in other words, dwelt in every human long before the events of that first Christmas night, long before the Christian faith and its church were conceived. God took human form in Jesus of Nazareth so that this cosmic knowledge could be made known to all.

What this knowledge means in terms of Christianity’s understanding of its place in a world of many religions has only relatively recently become a subject of serious theological debate. But that debate will dominate not only theological circles for years but also, in many respects, the cultural and political agenda, too. How we can live together in a way that affirms life, in a way that expresses the divine presence in each human being, is the question that needs to be addressed. The events of September 2001, and the conflicts between Jews, Muslims and Christians the world over are proof enough that if answers are not found, hatred and violence will take their place.

F GOD has always and everywhere been active in history, then this activity must be reflected in the different religious traditions. Are they then equal partners, if not in salvation as understood in the Christian sense, then at least in the expression of God’s regard for humanity and humanity’s response to that regard? If so, what insights do they offer? How can - and should - the practitioners of these different religions participate in each other’s insights?

These questions may not seem novel but the approach that is now required is - as far as the modern world is concerned. That world has been built on the idea of toleration, understood in turn as the idea that religion is essentially a private concern and so religious differences can be glossed over and their individual contributions diminished because nothing of public importance hangs on them. This approach has encouraged claims to exclusive truth - and the division and conflict these spawn - because we no longer seek a sharing of the different experiences of our common humanity. Instead, what is asked of us is that we bear with each other by respecting our separate beliefs.

What is needed is more positive: the encouragement of genuine mutual understanding. For this to happen, the memory of Christmas is a good starting point. In its essentials, the story of Christmas is the story of a child - everywhere a source of new life - whose immediate fate is dependent on the loving environment of a family, just as our common fate rests in nurturing human relationships. It is a story of courage and of hope. As such it is a source and inspiration for each. Both will be needed to reach beyond the frontiers of our respective religious certainties and to explore the deeper mysteries to which they point.

Where to start? Christians ignoring “appeals from their religious leaders” and behaving like naughty non-Christians? What?! The “sketchy” and “contradictory” gospel accounts of Jesus birth that *shock* don’t explicitly state if an ox really was present? Oh my! The twisting of one of the most profound statements of Christian belief into the idea that “The spirit of God, in other words, dwelt in every human long before the events of that first Christmas night, long before the Christian faith and its church were conceived.” That’s just offensive!

Then the old chestnut, religious tolerance. This has apparently become a priority post 9/11, because religion is (a) synonymous with planes flying into buildings (b) the obvious scapegoat for everything wrong with my government, my lifestyle and my beliefs and (c) it threatens my delicate sense of security in my personal wealth and my dreams that one day I too may participate on Extreme Makeover to get the look I always wanted.

No religion = no “unpleasantness”. And anyhow, despite the religious climate into which Jesus was actually born, we know that “God” was working away in all religions all along! Now if we could only get those pesky religious people to see they are all really singing the same tune ahd have been all along, then all the better for society! Christmas isn’t about salvation or anything, its about the far more important virtues of “courage” and “hope”. To what end these virtues lead is not the point, just so long as all religious pretensions to anything other than these most holy virtues is stamped out post haste. Then we can tolerant everyone equally!

If I was an unbeliever, I’d almost blindly turn to Christianity purely as the rational alternative to the nonsense that is secular humanism.

   
25 December 2003 5:40am
1261 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]

You may be a fundamentalist atheist if....

Luke,

It is a pity that people who write comments about Christian beliefs do not research the subject. He misses the point about what Jesus message was.

Is it so difficult to understand the basic gospel message? If Mr Chadwick could enrol in a “Simply Christianity” starters group, and use his ears he might understand something.

But only the elect can hear and see the meaning of the gospel, because God has blinded the eyes, and blocked the ears of those destined to His eternal judgement. Matthew 13:14-17

P.S. Luke, in your opening statement you said:

it sure makes a hash of representing even the basic tenants of the Christian Christmas message,

I think you meant tenets

Happy Christmas, and get well soon!

Ken

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25 December 2003 6:57am
370 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]

I have just read the ediorial referred to, and attempted to write a reply to some of it…

“The editor’s notion that his quote from the gospel of John means that the spirit of God dwelt in all humans is as about erroneous as they come. The technique of picking a little bit of scripture and pitting one’s own interpretation to it is one of the reasons people find the message of Christ confusing.

John is referring to Christ as the “Word”, the “Life”, and the “Light”. It is the light of men, ie the only light, since and himself (ie the “world") is in darkness. The “spirit of God” the editor so blithely refers to does not exist in us without salvation through faith - and even then it is God’s gift.

We are unable ( as John points out) to understand and accept God on our own, so it is not something we can arrive by our own thought processes, or through some religious process. I realise that this answer is regarded as both wrong and politically incorrect, but as Christ opposed the latter and taught what was the truth, I’m not too bothered.

What we don’t need is people rehashing the bible to suit themselves.

I would like to point out that Jesus also said( in John’s gospel, funnily enough) “ Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.  (John 14:6 (ESV)”

I don’t expect it make the letters page of course, but the SMH’s approach to christianity regularly gets me angry.

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“Our lives begin to end the day we
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25 December 2003 6:58am
1121 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]

Luke:

one reason why I try and avoid “secular” interpretations of Christmas.  They make me want to overturn nativity scenes at the local mall… ;-)

Ian.

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Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and on those in the tombs bestowing life!

   
27 December 2003 9:24am
3638 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]

Re: You may be a fundamentalist atheist if....

Ken, thanks for the typo hint and the well wishes. It is a shame people write so poorly about our beliefs, but then again I guess they are advocating their own gospel, which to them is far more meaningful than anything the bible says. Its frustrating when the enemy masquerades behind the real gospel, though.

David, yes, using John 1 as evidence to disprove Christianity (God was & is in all of us all along) is rather… odd. Very Matthew 4. Its a shame the author didn’t realise how absurd such an argument is - using evidence to make a point that disqualifies the very evidence you based your argument on, ugh.

Ian, hehe well better a nativity scene than a “50% OFF LAST DAYS HURRY” sign (well better both overturned, really ;), but do you remember the culture jamming anti-fad fad? We need a way of slipping subversive messages into nativity scenes… ahh next year :)

   
29 December 2003 4:23am
3638 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]

Hey David, bit late on this, but was that your letter in the weekend SMH?

Adrian Bain thinks that there is no evidence for the existence of God (Letters, December 26). What universe is he living in? Or what does he regard as evidence?

Like most of the history we know, we have eyewitness accounts of Christ. Just because they deal with material outside the normal testimonies we read does not mean they are not reliable. Science does not have all the answers. It continues to amaze me that people believe that theories such as evolution and the Big Bang are fact. They have as yet not been proven and the evidence on which they are based might have several explanations.

We have to recognise that we do not know it all and therefore must not assume what explanations we do have are fact.

David Ashton, Orange, December 26.

If so, good stuff! :)

   
29 December 2003 12:39pm
370 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]

Yep

And here is one of the replies from the letters page…

David Ashton speaks of eyewitness accounts of Christ as reliable (Letters, December 27). He is on very shaky ground, indeed. Modern DNA testing is overturning convictions and releasing prisoners from jail terms and even from death row, and research shows that 80 per cent of these wrongful convictions relied on eyewitness testimony.
Judges and juries in the United States are being educated about the unreliability of eyewitness testimony.
To suggest that evolution is unproven is a further example of bias. Very few scientists would argue that evolution is not a proven fact. The evidence is overwhelming.
Religion, on the other hand, as admitted even by the most ardent proponents, requires faith and faith is, by definition, a belief not based on proof.
Even a modern education does not prevent some people from affirming most vehemently that they experience paranormal phenomena, alien abduction, telepathy or communication with the dead.
Of course, we do not know it all. That is a motherhood statement. But show me convincing evidence and then I may believe.
Christopher Borton, Rose Bay, December 28.

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“Our lives begin to end the day we
become silent about things that matter”
Martin Luther King

   
29 December 2003 10:48pm
1121 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]

I liked your letter, David [and your Chaucer quote too! ;-)].

Published and getting rebuttals!  Wow! ;-)

God bless,
Ian.

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Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and on those in the tombs bestowing life!

   
29 December 2003 10:54pm
315 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]

“Say, that’s a quaint old musical playback device you have there.”
“Yes, indeed.  It’s called a turntable.”
“What does it play?”
“Records.”

And at the risk of sounding like a broken one, I would encourage anyone who has something to say in response to Christopher Borton to write to the SMH letters page by 3pm today.  letters@smh.com.au .

Edited to add: Great letter, David!

SJK.

   
30 December 2003 2:04am
1212 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]

When Adam delved and Eve span
who was then a gentleman?

Chaucer

I don’t think it was Chaucer.  I think it was one of the leaders of the peasant revolt - perhaps Wat Tyler.

Surely Chaucer wouldn’t have uttered such bolshie sentiments!

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30 December 2003 3:55am
370 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]

Alan, it certainly is Chaucer!

Please read James 2 and Galatians 3:28 & 29

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“Our lives begin to end the day we
become silent about things that matter”
Martin Luther King

   
30 December 2003 6:46am
1212 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]

David, I’ve read the texts from James and Galatians that you recommended, but they don’t shed any light on your (may I suggest?) novel attribution of this doggeral to Chaucer.

My ODQ lists the authorship of these words as under ‘Anonymous’ - and records that they were spoken by one John Ball, spoken during a ‘revolutionary sermon’ at the time of the Wat Tyler rebellion during 1381.

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“This town has nothing but
Red Dirt, Black Flies and White Heat” - Herbert Hoover

   
30 December 2003 7:15am
370 posts
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]

My apologies Alan, you are correct!

My quote is now updated.

The references I mentioned were not to explain Chaucer’s use, but that I agree with the sentiment and why.

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“Our lives begin to end the day we
become silent about things that matter”
Martin Luther King