Hello hello,

This topic has bothered me for some time, and while I have talked to others about it, it always seems to get pressed to the back or laughed at - perhaps because it is not as emotive as other issues.

We (hopefully ;-)) know our commandments...and various other injunctions.  What I am concerned with is sin [if it is that] that is not explicitly in the Bible due to the change in society / technology, e.g.

[list]
[*] copying software, CDs, etc…
[*] cheating Health Funds [e.g. stating glasses were “prescription” when they were not]
[*] gaining false ID for travel & movie concessions, etc.
[*] speeding - perhaps trivial at first sight, but I mean 20-25+ km/h more, not 1 or 2
[/list:u]

Now, I am the first to admit I am not without sin, but I know many, many Christians who while wonderful people and youth / Bible study leaders, participate in such activities and really couldn’t care less.

My only explanation is that these are not specifically condemned in the Bible, e.g. Jesus did not say, “And lo, if thou traverseth a motorway, ye must obey posted signage.” However, in terms of the law of the land I have pointed to Epistle passages that tell us to obey authorities and such.  I have watched people squirm uncomfortably during sermons which mention copying CDs and games, but I have also seen people snigger and laugh.

As I said, I am with sin in these situations: I have sped, I have copied games, etc… I now (try and) stop myself.  I am not sure if these issues are unimportant at all, there are far more physically and emotionally hurtful sins, but I cannot see how people can be so blasé about it.

Am I on the wrong track?  Am I too quick to judge and too legalistic?  Let me know, please.

Thanks; God bless,
Ian.

I think there are the words of Jesus in that when asked if they should pay taxes he said “Render under ceaser what is due ceaser, an drender unto God what is due God”

As well Paul (I think) says to obey authorities as they are put in authority by God. So I guess by copying games we are withholding someone their due copyright fees (stealing) by speeding we are disobeying authorities and putting others lives at risk (Dishonor) By cheating health funds are we lying and stealing.

I only recently walked around my neighbourhood cutting bit’s and pieces of various overhanging plants to make cuttings, my wife was embarressed by my stealing as she put it, I made all the excuses under the sun about how nobody would be hurt by it, though later on at home I did come under the conviction that indeed I had stolen.

Amazing how our hearts are decietful.

craig

Hi Ian,

Thanks for your post :) Great discussion to have.

[quote author="Ian"]
We (hopefully ;-)) know our commandments...and various other injunctions. What I am concerned with is sin [if it is that] that is not explicitly in the Bible due to the change in society / technology, e.g.

* copying software, CDs, etc…
* cheating Health Funds [e.g. stating glasses were “prescription” when they were not]
* gaining false ID for travel & movie concessions, etc.
* speeding - perhaps trivial at first sight, but I mean 20-25+ km/h more, not 1 or 2

It is the intent behind the action which I think we need to look at.

Pirating software/CDs
Is it not stealing? A software company or musical artist gets paid royalties on what is sold of theirs. By pirating their products (and bypassing the cost to the manufacturers) are we not actually stealing from them? I’ve been guilty also in the past. But I’ve really put up a stand now despite pressure I am occassionally under from others. In fact recently someone in my family had asked me to copy some ‘Pilates’ videos we have for a friend because they cost a fortune to buy. I tried being non-committal but then when I was really honest with myself I knew it was stealing and I picked up the phone and told my family member I wouldn’t do it because it was sinful. I was amazed at the response (which was very understanding) considering I was ready for a fight over it!

Cheating health funds / centrelink etc
A double whammy… stealing and lying. After all isn’t stealing taking something which is not ours?

Gaining false ID for travel & movie concessions, etc.
Again lying (giving false testimony) and in some cases (eg. movie concessions) stealing.

Speeding
Yes, I think the obeying the authorities comes in (here and in the others as well actually) but it is also the fact that you are acting in a selfish way- that is you are recklessly and needlessly endangering the well-being of other people.

You’re right when you say that when we raise these issues (particularly with youth because pirating CDs etc is such a part of their culture now) it gets brushed under the carpet after a few sniggers. The reality is that we know we are sinning and by trying to make excuses like ‘Jesus didn’t say we shouldn’t lie on our austudy form’ it just goes to show how far we will go to justify our sin.

I don’t think you are on the wrong track. We need to be encouraging each other to live godly lives in all respects.

This thread already makes me think of how wonderful - and terrifying - is the double command to love.

If I know a rule is ‘don’t copy CDs’ I can pretty much keep the rule. But if I am to love God & love my neighbour I has no excuse ever to think I have made it. These commands keep going - love ever looks to honour God & do the best by others.

As I think about it, the love command kind of makes the other rules not necessary. Eg., if I am to love my neighbour, I have to think about what that means for the neighbour I have never met but who lives by their music. Perhaps I won’t copy that CD after all ...

Dani, I can understand that in Sydney

Speeding
... you are recklessly and needlessly endangering the well-being of other people.

But out here (Kalgoorlie), the roads and long, straight and deserted, so there is little question of endangering other motorists.

You can feel like a bit of martyr sticking to 110, as the saltbush and spinifex crawl past you seemingly at a snail’s pace.

It is just ‘convenient’ for parliament to prescribe a single low speed limit for the whole state; and if it inconveniences folks in remote communities, so be it.

But I think the best argument against infringing minor regulations is that it is a slippery slope, and once you let the Devil have an inch, he/it might grab a mile from you.

Also, compliance with the law can be an amazing witness.  I used to share a house with a girl who declared her cash income from tutoring in her annual tax return.  I was already a Christian, but it really made me think about my discipleship.

Dani, I can understand that in Sydney

Speeding
... you are recklessly and needlessly endangering the well-being of other people.

But out here (Kalgoorlie), the roads and long, straight and deserted, so there is little question of endangering other motorists.

You can feel like a bit of martyr sticking to 110, as the saltbush and spinifex crawl past you seemingly at a snail’s pace.

It is just ‘convenient’ for parliament to prescribe a single low speed limit for the whole state; and if it inconveniences folks in remote communities, so be it.

But I think the best argument against infringing minor regulations is that it is a slippery slope, and once you let the Devil have an inch, he/it might grab a mile from you.

Also, compliance with the law can be an amazing witness.  I used to share a house with a girl who declared her cash income from tutoring in her annual tax return.  I was already a Christian, but it really made me think about my discipleship.