Hello everybody again - after a Christmas break.

The issue in my church isn’t tithing - which I think can be very legalistic, though it’s been a useful target for me to aim for after many years of penny-pinching.

The issue is getting people in the congregation to understand that it is their resonsibility to support the work of the parish:  that the worker is worth his pay.

There is a disconnectedness between what some people put in the collection plate and what it costs to dine out, or take the family to the movies on the one hand, and what it costs to maintain the parish ministry on the other hand.  As I count the collection some times and serve on parish council, it frustrates me a good deal.

I humbly suggest that you are not there to decide what others do or do not give, for as a man gives so too will he receive.

Richard, you are quite right.  I’m sorry if (and a little surprised that) I gave out that impression.

I actually agree with you.  I’m in favour of abolishing the collection plate during the Sunday Service.  I think it creates a bad impression for guests; and if the church indicated that its preferred method of giving was bank deposit, people would probably think more seriously about what they decide to give.

On the other hand, if you are suggesting that it is wrong to have a paid ministry, I don’t agree with you.  As I work full time I don’t have enough time to give as I would like, to the pastoral work of the parish - I would rather contribute towards somebody else doing it; I think setting apart people to carry out Christian ministry and paying them to do it makes sense in advanced western countries, where there are many people in this position.

I don’t think the apostle Peter was condemning the paying of ministers; I think he was condemning ministers coveting the payment.

The practice in my church is also of 10% tithing among the other offerings. Additional givings to the ministries, building funds and etc are not included in the 10% of which we give. I believe tithing has a disciplining and character-building motives behind it. We often think we give our money to God but how wrong! God is no man’s debtor. He is the Giver, the Provider, the Creator. He doesn’t need our money. In a practical light, giving our tithes to the church would mobilize many things the church needs to get moving. Ministries, missions and other stuff...these need money. Of course, contributions of other forms are greatly needed too.

In tithing, we’re learning the lesson of giving. It is not the amount of which we give, though the minimum is 10% for those who can afford to give. It is the spirit behind our giving that is more important, I believe. In giving, we’re relinquishing our hold on that sum of money. Being able to part with earthly things and material comforts builds us up to view this world as a temporal place. Many a times, we hold too tightly to all we have, thinking we have gained them. But in truth, without Him we can do nothing. All we have come from God.

In Cambodia, one of the mission trips I went, we were teaching the locals on tithing. The folks there were too poor to tithe. They commented that it is easy for us city folks from better off countries to talk about giving to the church, not comprehending their poverty and hardship. While we worry about the leaked tap, the blurry channel on TV, the overcooked dinner, they worry about where their next meal would come from, where their next shelter would be, how would they survive if their pigs/cows die.
After reviewing our notes, we realised that we need to contextualise the matter and understand from their perspective. God helped us by highlighting their plights. So, our leader taught them about tithing in other forms. For some 10% is easy to part with, for others it’s an area of sacrificial giving. For the poorer Cambodians, they are encouraged to tithe in other ways like giving a bag of rice, sweet potatoes or any other stuff. In giving, their faith is stretched and they see God as their sole Provider.

Mr Merrill
welcome you have started with a flourish of trumpets, i hope to see your posts in the future but with the greatest possible respect (attn Mr Dungey) you may also care to consider 1 Cor 9:6ff

I have taught tithing regularly for years.

It isn’t a legalistic concept but a practical one. God promises in His word to protect the income of those who tithe. “Test me in this “ he tells us.

I did a lot of study on this last year, because I felt our church was struggling financially more than we should have. So I looked into Scripture really closely and found that the tithe is a blessing, not a burden-- when rightly applied.

I also found that the tithe should be “brought” rather than “sent"… that meant for us ending direct bank deposits as a valid means of giving tithes.

I think part of it too, which often gets lost in larger churches and older denominations, is that it’s not about supporting an institution or even a minsitry. Its about a personal relationship between the people and their “shepherd.” It’s about people saying “I value your ministry.”

Of course the tithe is only a starting point. If Sydney people think they cannot afford to tithe there is a huge problem in the teaching of the church. Materialism, greed and selfishness are rampant. Generous giving- beyond the tithe- will kill people of those attitudes real fast.

I pastor a small church in a country town. We have basically half a dozen incomes to support the church and my family. They are ordinary working people. The love among us is so huge that they go beyond the tithe often.

I don’t want to brag about them (well actually I do, cos I love them!) but here are some examples of what they do… remember this is tiny church not big church.

* we recently raised in excess of $13,000 to give an orphanage in India a kick start to help them minister to what they thought would be 20 children orphaned by last year’s tsunami-- turned out to be 53 children. When I say we raised that money what I mean is that they gave it.

* several churches in our town contribute together to employ a young woman to minister in the High School. Guess which church gives the biggest amount each month? Guess who has the smallest number of supporters? Just through the joyful giving of two of our members.

* a few months ago when our daughter was involved in the schools spectacular and a number of other commitments that involved repeated trips to Sydney and accommodation that we just could not afford, with no prompting from anyone, two people came separately and placed fairly large quantities of money in our hands.

These people know that you reap what you sow. When you give joyfully to the Lord you reap a harvest of joy, a generous spirit and more than enough to keep you alive and flourishing.

I’ve got hundreds of stories I could tell about this, but I won’t.

I’m not interested in theological arguments. Our practice as a church is probably different to other churches. We’ve searched the scriptures and prayed at length to find out what the Lord would have us do. I’m not saying others should do as we do- that’s up to you and the Lord.

I suggest that all pastors, all church boards and all christians need to seek God and go beyond the plate mentality to seek the mind of God.

Blessings

Keith

It is my impression that tithing largely dissapeared in the years surrounding both World Wars as the Welfare State gradually assumed many functions previously incurred by benevolent institutions (and associated punative taxation effectively pauperised those townsmen who were their primary benefactors.)

One legislative possibility could be to institute a discretionary Kirchensteuer along the lines of that prevailing in the German Federal Republic, although to assuage potential objections from secularists I’d allow those funds to be allocated towards any registered charity of the payer’s choice.