[quote author="Ken Davis"][quote author="Adam Gregory"][quote author="Ken"]Why are so many evangelicals so afraid?!?

Excuse me?

Why are we so monocultural. Why do we think we are so much better than the rest. Why do we find it so hard to say hello to a stranger?

Dear Ken,
when I know something about the truth (which Jesus gives me), I am happy with that, and then, I will get alittle uppity, and in this case, I can not be kind to the others , as the same way that God is kind to me.
but if I know more about the truth, I will be looking for the others to tell them the best way to know the truth, and then I need them to hear me more, and will be more kind to them for selfish.
Fainally, if I die in my spirit, and the spirit of truth will live in my body. I know most of the truth which I ca, and then I can not be unkind to the others or forget them, not a friend, not a stranger.
Christ is coming
Mousa

[quote author="Luke Stevens"]This is a slight digression, but can I ask, does anyone else not sing in church?

I don’t. I don’t have anything against it, I just.. don’t. I think I stopped in my mid teens and just never really felt compelled to start again. The only exception is when its really good, then I might. Weird eh? I’m usually listening to music like every waking minute during the day and I’ll happily sing along there, but at church? No sale.

Clearly you have been quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19), and we shall pray for you ;)

G’day Luke,

I wonder if there may be need of an mindset adjustment?

This is a slight digression, but can I ask, does anyone else not sing in church?

Why do we sing in the first place, is it for the sake of singing, is it because we want to instruct others with the gospel, or is it because we are singing to God himself.

I can’t understand why it is that no one would not want to sing a love song to the Lord.

In music selection I much rather sing songs that address God personally, rather then sing songs to each other about God, God doesn’t need to hear about himself, he does want to hear our praises of him though.

I do understand though that it can be helpful to begin singing a song about what God has done to bring edifyication to us to lead us into singing directly to God - I find it tedious though when every song is about God whilst not addressing him directly - as there is nothing personal about it - between us and God.

craig

Hello everyone. Haven’t been on the forums for a while - must be because no uni!!

Anyway, I thought I’d comment on this forum.  I’ve been at home now for a week with URTI - Upper Respiratory Tract Infection, which, with my enormous lung capacity, makes me sound like a barking great Dane according to my flatmate!  She has kindly let me use her computer to catch up on email, and I saw the latest depression comment, so I logged on. Anyway, I digress…

Firstly, a few acknowledged biases.  I LURRRRRRRRVE to sing.  I sing in my mind all day.  I sing at church.  I sing up the front.  I’ve sung at weddings and funerals.  I’ve sung in choirs and as a soloist.  My best gig was singing at the Opening Ceremony of the Olympic Games in the huge massed choir sitting over the cauldron.  So yes, I love to sing.

Secondly, coming to church for me is sometimes is all about the singing.  Yes, I confess it.  Yes, I own it.  Yes, I know, me a “committed” evangelical.  For me, it’s one of the best times of church.  The part I dread the most (perhaps because of who preaches - no, no only joking!! ) is the sermon, probably because it ends up me thinking about how I should be serving God better.  And my sinful heart doesn’t want to go there.

Thirdly, I’m a musician.  I play the piano, I’ve grown up with music.  My mother plays ABC Classic FM 24/7.  I’d play the piano more but currently am struggling with wrist pain.  I’ve also helped out with music administration at my church in the past, from choosing songs, to arranging music copies, to monitoring rosters. It’s hard, hard work, which thankfully I’m not currently doing.

Okay, I think that’s outlined some of my biases!!

I think we sing for lots of reasons at church. 

Some of us sing to God.

Others sing to each other.

Others sing to themselves.

Others sing because it’s expected.

Others choose not to sing!

When I sing, I sing to make my voice heard (yes, shameless extrovert that I am), I sing to help other people hear the tune (part of my musician-ness), I sing to express my joy to my God, I sing to learn words of Scripture.

Did you know that the parts of Scripture that I know the best are the ones been put in song?? Something about adding a melody and rhythm makes it easier to sing to them. 

I sing at church to unite together in a common “activity”.  I sing just because I enjoy it. 

So I guess what I’m saying is there are lots of reasons for singing in church.  Some of them very selfishly motivated, some not so bad. 

Prattled on again, haven’t I?  best go now.

Georgina

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Church Music and Friendlyness

Firstly. Anglican Friendly churches need you to be there 3 consecitive weeks to get talked to no matter how good looking you are. Week 1 you might just be passing through and not worth the energy. Week 2 maybe you are looking around and they don’t want to be too pushy. Week 3 “oh your back again some one make an effort with these people!”

Secoundly. If you want up lifting music don’t go to an Anglican churh generally they are way to insular to even move in their seats and look like they are enjoying them selves. I heaven you will know the Anglicans They will be the ones wondering why every one looks like they are enjoying themselves.
The whole Music/ Hymns debate as a music ministry person falls flat with me. If a good song comes out of Hills then use it if its Emu then use it, don’t throw out Hymns just because they are but don’t think that they have the market cornered for Theology either. Is the song complete in its theology?  Well I ask the question, why then does Jesus leave out the doctrine of atonement in the parable of the prodical son?( luke 1511-32)
The biggest problem we have is that we form uneducated opinions and say because it comes from this or that place we cannot accept it, what lessons do we get from the way Jesus delt with the women at the well or Levi.

Re: Church Music and Friendlyness

[quote author="Mark Hawkins"]Firstly. Anglican Friendly churches need you to be there 3 consecitive weeks to get talked to no matter how good looking you are. Week 1 you might just be passing through and not worth the energy. Week 2 maybe you are looking around and they don’t want to be too pushy. Week 3 “oh your back again some one make an effort with these people!”

I’m sorry if this has been your experience of Anglican churches, but it hasn’t been mine.

Secoundly. If you want up lifting music don’t go to an Anglican churh generally they are way to insular to even move in their seats and look like they are enjoying them selves.

Define uplifting. I find most of the music that comes out of Hills (and most contemporary Christian music in general) to be dull and uninspired. But a building full of 100 people really belting out ‘And Can it Be’ or ‘Rock of Ages’ - now *that* is an uplifting experience. Everyone on their feet, their voices raised, the building filled with glorious sound, lyrics to die for and brilliant melodies - don’t tell me that’s not uplifting or enjoyable!

If a good song comes out of Hills then use it if its Emu then use it, don’t throw out Hymns just because they are but don’t think that they have the market cornered for Theology either.

Define ‘a good song’. This I think is where the crux of the matter lies - how do we decide what songs are good to sing?

Is the song complete in its theology?

I think the question should be ‘Is the song sound in its theology?’. I don’t expect every song to include a teatise on Justification by Faith, or on the Trinity (etc.) but if a song contradicts or devalues these truths then I would argue against singing it - no matter how good it might make people feel about themselves.

singing and listening

Thanks David for your comments.
What I am not going to do is provide definitions as to what is or isn’t uplifting. An up lifting song is anything that does just that. I would agree that 100 voices raised singing anything with decent words is uplifting. I regret that you find Hills stuff not so, And would further that I also do not find most of their stuff bringing me closer in Worship but I will not throw out the baby with the bath water.

Friend my experience with friendly Anglican churchs spans 40 years from St Andrews Summer Hill to All Saints Cathedrill Bathurst and many in between. I am not saying that Anglican Churchs are unfriendly.  what I am saying is that even in recent times my experience has been that our idea of what our church from inside is like varies from what it is. I would say that St MArks Oakhurst is a very friendly church but.... I have also seen and spoken with people that have left our church because they haven’t felt welcome.

Just because our experience being in a church is positive doesn’t mean that every one has the same experience. I have counseled many that bear this out. The challenge then is for us to return to the gospel and view our relationships so that those around will comment on how the christians love each other and want to be part of that group.

David. This is my firt time on Forum. and can I say that I am thankful that your experience in the Anglican Communion has been so positive. It is great that we all come from different places but what is better is that our place around the throne of the lamb is secured

singing & music

greetings good people
on doing some back reading i was stunned to see that luke has not sang in church for umpteen years.
well said david & i agree mark must have been going to a strange anglican church,as i have attended churches all over aussie ,new guinea
u k & s,a in which all the congregations seem to be enjoying and taking part in the singing and the service..
i am most thankful to God that he gave me a reasonable voice & musical
talent which (old age prevents the top notes) being used with great love
and delivery in many services.
oh! to hear those papuans singing at their church services again & taking
part .
speaking of new guinea i see abm will be conducting a martyrs service
on 3 rd september in rememberance of those great servants of Christ who were put to death by the japanese in new britain during the sec ww.
having had the moving experience of standing at that spot in 1951 i
commend to all this martrys service.
may light perpetual shine upon them.

gloria in excelsis deo

col sutherland

I sing in church but badly, so badly its sometimes noticed (but then as Angela will tell you I have an unusual voice- which can be a help sometimes I am recognised easily), But I sing because I want to praise god even badly. I also sing hymns outside church...one of the abiding memories is singing Sophie to sleep walking the wards of old childrens hospital...must have looked and sounded odd to outsiders though.

Iam blessed with a good memory.

Question slightly off topic why are so many hymns edited some of the best verses are deleted look for example at the original of Abide with me (See here http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/a/b/abidewme.htm)And you will see how verses of great power and theological meaning are no longer sung. Why is that so?

Thanks Peter for resurrecting this thread as I wanted to share my joy of having heard a fine Christian musical talent on Sunday.

Has anyone heard of Jason Coghill? He has set many of the Psalms to music. His music is modern - not grunge punk or ‘pots and pans clanging’ modern. Modern yet sensitive. Listening to him sing while playing his guitar made the psalms come alive in a unexpected way. And it was sheer bliss when his wife, Jane, joined him on flute (btw, why are there so many female flautist called Jane?).

It seems Christians don’t sing psalms in church much - off hand I think we, at St Aidans, sing psalm 95 with decreasing regularity. I can’t think of the refernce in the NT which instructs Christians to encourage each other with song, psalms and...Help anyone?

As a result of his visit to our church we sang 2 psalms - 23 and 100. Singing the very words of the bible was very special indeed.

There should be more of it.

Jason and Jane are currently on an Australia-wide tour. I encourage anyone reading this to see him and Jane in concert or better still organise for him to come and preach and sing at your church.

Ephesians 5:19 maybe?

The mention of people who think they sing badly prompts me to put in this little plug.

The evening education unit of St Andrew’s Cathedral School, City Ed, currently has an excellent course on offer to teach people to sing. For details see the web site:

I’ve done Simply Sing and Simply Sing More … and it’s been a great help for me to improve my vocal skills. If you do the course next term you might just see me there again since it’s also been great fun. Singing harmonies to Amazing Grace, or to the “Fighting Temptations” version of Swing Low Sweet Chariot is a real buzz. And this is with a group of people who don’t consider themselves singers - the tutor, David Wood, is getting some amazing sounds out of us.

On a closely related subject, City Ed also have a course on Christian songwriting. For those who are interested, again see www.cityed.com.au for details.

Kutz,

There’s no “maybe” about it: that’s THE verse.

thanks
Angela

[quote author="Angela Crittle"]Kutz,

There’s no “maybe” about it: that’s THE verse.

thanks
Angela

hehehe… a favourite of yours then?

[quote author="peter kirsop"]But I sing because I want to praise god even badly.

That’s the stuff! There is no such thing as praising God “badly” if we’re talking about how well you sing. Only if we’re talking about a dodgy motivation… then I’m not sure it’s really praise anyway.
Occasionally I will just listen rather than sing if I feel I really need to think about the words. Often I find it hard to let them have their full impact if I’m singing. But this is rare and I’d much rather be joining with my Christian family in singing God’s praise.

I also sing hymns outside church...one of the abiding memories is singing Sophie to sleep walking the wards of old childrens hospital...must have looked and sounded odd to outsiders though.

That’s a nice picture. Does she respond now to those hymns you used to sing?
I think I freaked out a couple of fellow Jet Star passengers when I started singing Rock of Ages to Adelle on Saturday. The pressure differential was distressing her terribly and that song calms her like no other.

Angela, the flautist for my music group is named Jane too. Freaky....**cue twilight zone music**