Elsewhere we’ve been talking about the WOW factor in music. Part of the WOW factor in music is the production, the beat and the quality of the vocal. If those are good and there is a great hook, then a “listener” may actually discover a song with profound depth or captivating imagery. More likely they will discover well crafted (from a commercial angle) anaemic pop song, though occasionally they will hit on a real gem.
However, for all the craft, a congregational song is meant to be sung, more than listened to. A great “listening song” may not be that great to sing. Some great songs to sing, may not be that captivating as “listening” songs.
So when judging songs for congregational use, you either need to be able to mentally enter the shoes of ther “singer” or actually do it, so you can experience the song as it is sung. It is as songs are “tried out” that we experience the space where they came from, and if that space is universal enough, and true to a christian world view, then it is of great value.
This helps make sense of the phenomena of songs that “grow on you”.
One thing about congregational songs is that they are “congregational” - and this might mean that a good “listening” song, which (for example) might be a personal reflection of the songwriter in a particular situation, might not be reflective of the situation of every member of the congregation. On the other hand, a song which (for example) speaks of Jesus saving us from our rebellion against God and our need to respond in faith - a song about gospel truths, which is applicable to everyone - would be more appropriate as a “singing” song.
Ken, is this what you mean when you talk about “the space where a song comes from”?
On the other hand, if we are talking about the music in particular - apart from saying that some melodies are singable and some are not - do you think that there is room to say that different people have a different “wow factor”?
A funny situation I recall from a church convention a couple of years ago - all the congregations were there including youth groups, the younger evening congregation, the family congregation, and the older congregation. The band from the evening meeting was on stage rocking it up (no more than they normally do) and everyone was having fun. At the end of one of the songs the leader asked if we were enjoying the singing, and the oldies up the back shouted back almost in unison “too loud, too loud!”
This makes me seriously wonder whether we sometimes put too much effort into making the music sound the way we want - ie. putting too much effort into the wow factor. If the style of music is a distraction to some people, then surely this is a problem? How can we overcome this?
[quote author="Duncan Maitland"]This makes me seriously wonder whether we sometimes put too much effort into making the music sound the way we want - ie. putting too much effort into the wow factor. If the style of music is a distraction to some people, then surely this is a problem? How can we overcome this?
Different music for different demographics :)
There are many Christian hymns which I love to sing (tonight we belted out ‘And Can it Be’, always a joy), but I must confess that my CD collection doesn’t have a single Christian album in it. I just haven’t heard *any* Christian music which I thought made for pleasant listening, not even expertly-produced versions of my favourite hymns. In fact I get fidgity whenever the music team presents an ‘item’ at church, it really does nothing to move me at all.
This is a slight digression, but can I ask, does anyone else not sing in church?
I don’t. I don’t have anything against it, I just.. don’t. I think I stopped in my mid teens and just never really felt compelled to start again. The only exception is when its really good, then I might. Weird eh? I’m usually listening to music like every waking minute during the day and I’ll happily sing along there, but at church? No sale.
[quote author="David C Simon"] I get fidgity whenever the music team presents an ‘item’ at church, it really does nothing to move me at all.
Is that because you don’t enjoy the style of music? It might help to focus on the words instead and let them sink in.
My band performs one item each week for the following reasons:
- It provides a dedicated time for newcomers to fill out visitor slips
- It allows us to introduce or refresh new songs before the church tackles them OR
- It allows us to play songs with really good lyrics but tunes which are too complex or awkward for us to try them as congregationals (lots of EMU stuff to choose from in this category)
That said, sometimes we just play a regular old song and just let people sit and listen and think about what they so often sing.
Different music for different demographics :)
I personally have a problem with the different demographics thing. When we split our churches into separate services because people don’t have the grace to tolerate different tastes, a part of our community dies. If a style of music is a distraction to someone, they probably need to just bleedin’ well get over themselves and have a think about what church is about. I personally dislike a lot of hymns (they actually make my head ache to sing for some wierd reason) but so what? They’re a way of worshiping God just like my favourite Robin Mark songs are. It’s all good..... especially if it’s all accomodated.
Luke, if music is a part of your daily life, why the indifference to it when it is a form of Worship? I’m quite perplexed.
[quote author="Dave Ruys"]Is that because you don’t enjoy the style of music? It might help to focus on the words instead and let them sink in.
To be honest I’m just unmoved by ‘songs’ in general. If you were to look at my sizable CD collection, you’d find that only about 5% of it is made up of bands singing songs. The bulk of it is a combination of classical music, opera, soundtracks, musical theatre and celtic - these genres move me to tears. With a few notable exceptions, stand-alone songs do nothing to me, and I have yet to hear *any* Christian songs which have fallen into those exceptions.
I personally have a problem with the different demographics thing. When we split our churches into separate services because people don’t have the grace to tolerate different tastes, a part of our community dies. If a style of music is a distraction to someone, they probably need to just bleedin’ well get over themselves and have a think about what church is about. <snip> It’s all good..... especially if it’s all accomodated.
But if all services are identical, then what on earth is the point of having more than one? Each person has different tastes and we all have different ideas of what qualifies as a ‘fun’ or a ‘reverent’ atmosphere. What is wrong with choosing to meet up with others who have similar tastes to our own? It makes church more appealing as there is a higher chance that there will be a service which you find meaningful.
A service which tries to please everybody will ultimately please nobody. Why have a single service where nobody is likely to enjoy more than 50% of it, when you could have three services where everybody who attends will find the entire experience meaningful?
Luke: I normally sing in church simply because I really enjoy singing (I used to be in the School Choir and have on occasion had lead roles in musicals), but whenever a new song is introduced I always remain silent for the first run. I refuse to sing something when I don’t yet know what it says.
1) I KNOW different people have a different WOW factor.
2) I generally support subcultural demographic targetting BUT if you believe the Bible, you MUST have intergenerational events. It doesn’t have to be a church service, but a biblical church must provide and create opportunities for young and old to mix.
In our ageist culture, you must positively and forcefully reach that ageism, and generational elitism are a blasphemy against God. And that ageism goes BOTH ways.
There is a neurological problem here - as people age, their thinking becomes more rigid - as a function of age related brain changes. Oldies could be expected to be more mature, thus more willing to accept the “immature young people” - but their capacity to do it is less. However, I hope when I’m old enough for it to be a real issue I will practice what I preach.
Singing in Oz is funny. Most people say they don’t like singing - but look what happens when you get them drunk or send them off to a concert? Whoda thunk that KAraoke would ever be popular in Australia? I suspect that singing and music are hard-wired into us and “non-singers” learn to suppress it. Like most things, I suspect there are exceptions. Most people I know who don’t sing tell me its “because I can’t” and that belief is usually because they’ve been told by someone, usually at a young age and taken it to heart.
Sometimes its the songs - I was a non-singer, my instrument is unexceptional, my pitch is not brilliant, but once I learned to do it, I enjoy it. But I do (and always did) “have the music in me”. Some songs - like 2 new ones foisted on me in church last sunday leave me cold - meandering melodies, pointless structure and trivial words elicit the worst reactions from me as a musician, singer, critic, listener and writer!
I rarely sing in church.
Mostly cos my voice is ordinary, very ordinary. But a lot of the hymns/ songs they sing are even more ordinary. The organ playing is often strained, and it is attempting a tune that is having problems, and then I am expected to pipe in as well.
I don’t think it a winning combo.
But, give me an old hymn (especially some of those German ones) before the latest chorus from Pillsong or whatever.
music and singing has always been part of religious expression.
in india, there is the ‘qawwali’ tradition in which you have a tabla (drum), a harmonium (like an accordion) and 3 singers singing and clapping to a rhythm. the audience often do little but sway or even clap.
My lady and I were talking about our general satisfaction levels with the church we have been going to.
Not friendly enough… only one person who didn’t actually know me approached me. No one approached her… and she is infinitely more attractive to talk to than me.
The songs (hymns out, songs in. ghastly song book with dreariness being the main criterion for entry) are aweful.
Our other mob were friendly and had ghastly Hillsong songs.
The Anglicans have the Communion advantage, although the Evangelical strain on communion makes it little more than a drop of grapejuice.
The other crowd fail though to even have a general confession, Creeds or much in the way of the Pauline or other verses to take us back to the Last Supper.
“where, on the night He was betrayed he took bread and breaking it gave thanks.....”
Those words are powerful to me, I hate for them to be glossed over.
We may become bi-churchites and go to both. Anglican Communion (not a thurible in sight though......) as well as Hillsong et al
[quote author="Owen Atkins"]My lady and I were talking about our general satisfaction levels with the church we have been going to.
Not friendly enough… only one person who didn’t actually know me approached me. No one approached her… and she is infinitely more attractive to talk to than me.
We may become bi-churchites and go to both. Anglican Communion (not a thurible in sight though......) as well as Hillsong et al
Sad but unfortunately common. My wife was at a party and met a Christian who described his church as “comfortably middle class, not much riff-raff about” - as one of the “riff-raff” she restrained from giving him the tongue lashing he deserved only out of derefence to the occasion and not wanting to spoil her brother in law’s 40th birthday.
I don´t think it is Evangelicals with some sort of implied exclusion to the rest of the Christian communions.
I have been in Salvation Army citadels where they didn´t want to talk to me. OK, I look a teensy bit scruffy, but really.
I have been befriended on a cold run by folks in Catholic churches and totally ignored in them too.
I think the problem is more likely to be a fact of human nature, and therefore one we Christians need to overcome.
When we get into cliques, clubs or tribes we are naturally suspicious of the newcomer. The more so if the newcomer doesn´t look like us. The less so if s/he does.
Similarity smooths the way for rapport, a lack of similarity makes the paths difficult.
The problem for us is that if you consider that each newcomer is made in the image of Christ then the similarity is there, no matter how dark the glass we are looking through.
The opinions expressed in this forum belong to the individual posting the message and may not represent the view of the Sydney Diocese of the Anglican Church. Click here to read the Posting Policy.
Everyone is welcome on our forums, but please keep comments on-topic and civil. Any flaming or general nastiness will be deleted. No unsolicited advertising is allowed. All comments, suggestions, bug reports, etc. related to the forums should be directed to Robert Moller. Click here to read our complete Posting Policy.
Get the latest Sydney stories, Culture and Indepth on your mobile device. Visit sydang.mobi
